How to beat the petrol companies

[flappist]

During a long converstaion last night I came up with this cunning plan.
Many on here are ****ed off with petrol companies but can not do much about it.
With the advent of small turbo diesel cars e.g. Focus & Golf it has been demonstrated that these have performance above the equivelent petrol models with far better economy.
They also will run on Biodiesel which is much cheaper and NONE of its profit goes to oil companies.
Biodiesel is much safe than petrol as it is difficult to ignite and produces less pollution.
The problem is that is is not available everywhere.

So here is the plan.

Falcon sized RWD turbo diesel 400Nm engine fitted with 300 litre fuel tanks. At 7l/100km this will give a range of over 4000km per fill and at 50c/litre will cost $150 to fill from empty. The performance should be on par with the current petrol vehicles and with the 4000km range you could fill up in Sydney, drive to Melbourne and back (twice) before filling up again. You dont need petrol stations every 300km. 300l of fuel weighs about 220kg (2 fat FPV owners) so this car fully fuelled will still weigh less than the majority of 4WD shoeboxes that abound in the urban jungle.....

Any comments?

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by flappist

Any comments?

Yeah.

Originally Posted by flappist

300l of fuel weighs about 220kg (2 fat FPV owners)

That’s a bit harsh. :hihi: :hihi:

[cupic]

Thats a cunning and mischief plans
I like it

Vote 1 Falppist for President

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Yeah.
That’s a bit harsh. :hihi: :hihi:

It certainly is .... I only weigh 105, and could not afford the Phoon !!

EgoFG

[Outbackjack]

Great idea. My old Patrol had custom made tanks that gave it 240 litres. A range of about 2800 klms. The only issue I see with a 300 litre tanks on a sedan type car is where it is going to fit. Getting 240 litres on a large vehicle like the Patrol was a big enough challenge.

What you have proposed has huge merit. But it will never take off beacuse common sense has little influence on todays society..... :togo:

[BeStRaFe]

Biodiesel is a good fuel.
dad has polo on this,
its fast and fun
but my lpg mobile still beats him in price

[AlbertM]

Where are you going to put the 300litres of fuel?

[BeStRaFe]

Originally Posted by AlbertM

Where are you going to put the 300litres of fuel?

have u seen the space under a falcon

ill say 50 liters under the passengers side rear seat.
re-design the petrol talk and u would get 250 liters.... the irs might have to move out of the way../.. :

[Full Spectrum]

Around 375kg of fuel for 300 litres Around 2 healthy sumo wrestlers, roughly 2 litres = 2.3-2.5 kg, It's why the rear drops so much after a full tank of 55-70 Litres = about 63-80kg..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Slick_Aussie

Around 375kg of fuel for 300 litres Around 2 healthy sumo wrestlers, roughly 2 litres = 2.3-2.5 kg, It's why the rear drops so much after a full tank of 55-70 Litres = about 63-80kg..

So you are saying fuel is heavier than water? How does it float then?

Ah maybe those are commodore kgs which are shown to be much heavier than falcon kgs in EVERY magazine test.........

P.S. I have had quite a bit of practice at working out fuel weight over the years.

[james22]

Originally Posted by Slick_Aussie

Around 375kg of fuel for 300 litres Around 2 healthy sumo wrestlers, roughly 2 litres = 2.3-2.5 kg, It's why the rear drops so much after a full tank of 55-70 Litres = about 63-80kg..

umm dude, petrol is lighter than water.

1Litre of Water = 1Kg
1Litre of petrol = approx 0.8kg i think.

I'm sure someone knows how to work it out.

^^^^^ *edit*

Already been said lol,

Sounds good Flappist, so when are you gonna take over FoMoCo and make it happen

[Outbackjack]

AVGAS weighs in at .72 a litre. Not sure what bio desiel comes in at.... 300 litres would give a performance hit when tanks are full. But over the long term I think that you would come out ahead.

[zetec]

Great idea but 300l of fuel would still affect the fuel economy more than if you filled up 3 times in a 100litre tank. Perhaps something as simple as a 100 litre tank is much more appropriate, easier to contain in a crash and easier to implement. It also means you wouldn't be wasting as much fuel carting its own weight around.

Good to see someone thinking outside the square however!

[BFXR8Silhouette]

Biodiesel is not viable at 50c/L. I think I saw something on tv (Landline maybe) saying before Biodiesel was the more economical option fuel would have to rise to a price around $2.50 - $3.00/L. You also need to remember that since Biodiesel is made from crops its availablility and therefore price would be dependant (sp) on the woulds agricultural production. ie Price would fluctuate, possibly more than it does now. Also if you take the money the Govt makes from petrol out of the economy how is Johnny going to afford his shiny new Stateman?

[T3ts50]

Where can you buy Biodeisel from?

[flappist]

SG of biodiesel according to http://www.biodiesel.org.au/ is variable but should be in the range of 0.86 to 0.90 <> 300l = 258-270kg (2 fat FPV owners with their supermodel girlfriends).
Yes the 300l would be a performance hit but this is not a drag car and the availability of the product will be scattered for some time.
70l of 91RON = 50kg +/- so there is a 200kg offset which is the difference between being by yourself and having the family on board. Weight is not so important that people buy XR6Ts rather than XR8s because they are heavier is it? Light 16" rims are seldom used to replace heavy 19" mags to save weight either.

And of course NOT paying $1.80++/l at Barkly appeals to me no end.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by zetec

Great idea but 300l of fuel would still affect the fuel economy more than if you filled up 3 times in a 100litre tank. Perhaps something as simple as a 100 litre tank is much more appropriate, easier to contain in a crash and easier to implement. It also means you wouldn't be wasting as much fuel carting its own weight around.

Good to see someone thinking outside the square however!

Or have a 300l tank and only put 100 in it. Diesel does not burn like petrol and if it spills it is not as poisonous.

Yes I know this is a pipe dream and if it were even remotely thought of being implemented the bio tax would appear like magic.

Also biodiesel would cause cancer, global warming and make beer go flat. The CEO of the company would be found with kiddie porn labeled heroin packets on top of his al-quada and collingwood AFC membership forms in the back of his unroadworthy unregistered stolen VL turbo when he is arrested doing 300km/h sideways in school zone at 3.02pm naked.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by flappist

...............................So here is the plan.

Falcon sized RWD turbo diesel 400Nm engine fitted with 300 litre fuel tanks. At 7l/100km this will give a range of over 4000km per fill and at 50c/litre will cost $150 to fill from empty. The performance should be on par with the current petrol vehicles and with the 4000km range you could fill up in Sydney, drive to Melbourne and back (twice) before filling up again. ...................................
..............Any comments?

Add All Wheel Drive and six speed Auto and i will put a deposit on it today!:evil3:

1/4 there with the new Mondeo coming out.

[BeStRaFe]

how about the combo of lpg and Diesel
power and economy

[Scott]

Why would 2 fat FPV owners be in a Falcon in the first place (unless it's a Taxi)?
Having 300L on board is too much space;
Having a 300L tank on board with only 100L in it makes for some interesting stability tests - even with ballast it's still a lot of weight slopping around;
Can I have mine in Black with 600nm please?

oh - Imagine the nightmare in creating a suspension setup that handles well with 10L in the tank and a 50kg driver, then apply the same to a car with a 100kg driver, 4 passengers weighing in at another 400kg, 150kg worth of luggage and 250kg's in the fuel tank. That's an extra 900kg's over the first example and just shy of 1000kg's over a dry one. Anyone want to tow a boat too?

[ZHANDY]

Me thinks u could go one sillier and put a big ford v8 Dieso into and old ford, run it on used cooking oil, be great, u could go ripping down the road in your nice ford that smells like a fish n chip shop. No tax on old cooking oil!

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Why would 2 fat FPV owners be in a Falcon in the first place (unless it's a Taxi)?
Having 300L on board is too much space;
Having a 300L tank on board with only 100L in it makes for some interesting stability tests - even with ballast it's still a lot of weight slopping around;
Can I have mine in Black with 600nm please?

oh - Imagine the nightmare in creating a suspension setup that handles well with 10L in the tank and a 50kg driver, then apply the same to a car with a 100kg driver, 4 passengers weighing in at another 400kg, 150kg worth of luggage and 250kg's in the fuel tank. That's an extra 900kg's over the first example and just shy of 1000kg's over a dry one. Anyone want to tow a boat too?

Adjustable air bags, the ricers would be so jealous

[freaky]

Originally Posted by GTP006

oh - Imagine the nightmare in creating a suspension setup that handles well with 10L in the tank and a 50kg driver, then apply the same to a car with a 100kg driver, 4 passengers weighing in at another 400kg, 150kg worth of luggage and 250kg's in the fuel tank. That's an extra 900kg's over the first example and just shy of 1000kg's over a dry one. Anyone want to tow a boat too?

Man went to the moon in 1969 with the computer power of a calculator. This should be a piece of cake to design.

[GK351]

Originally Posted by ZHANDY

Me thinks u could go one sillier and put a big ford v8 Dieso into and old ford, run it on used cooking oil, be great, u could go ripping down the road in your nice ford that smells like a fish n chip shop. No tax on old cooking oil!

lol Good sence of humour.

I Run three tipper trucks and have used bio diesel on one of them for a month
without any real problems, truck mechanic told me to stay away so i have been ever since. Depending on where the mix came from
it could stuff the diesel pump up on older trucks even new trucks.

The new diesel golf i recently purchased does not recommend 'biodiesel' use. Warning sign of filler flap, + may be subjet to void warrenty so once again i will stay away.

The only good use i can put bio diesel on is old farm machinery or the like, that dont get much running.

In sydney i have seen bio mabye 10 cents cheaper than normal diesel.
I know a couple of back yarders that mix it up and sell it.
Is it really worth it? for filtered batterd savs?

If you want to beat the petrol companies ride a bmx or something.

[myxr6]

Haven't you seen Mad Mad 2 ?Thats where you put 300 liters of go juice.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by myxr6

Haven't you seen Mad Mad 2

That must have been when Max was twice as mad. :hihi:

[HLC]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Yeah.
That’s a bit harsh. :hihi: :hihi:

i'd say more of an understatment :

[Scott]

Originally Posted by freaky

Man went to the moon in 1969 with the computer power of a calculator. This should be a piece of cake to design.

Design - yes. Package into a family sedan for around $30k - no. NASA didn't have to deal with ADR's either

[jonk]

flappist, good try but, the gearing won't take it, the car with passenger's won't be legal weight wise & the fuel companies will adjust their price accordingly to suit the market if everyone managed to do it.

Biodiesel is also worse 'carbon wise' for the environment than normal petroleum/diesel. Biodiesel started off as burning off frying oil from fast food outlets, now if you have to grow the 'bio mass' in fields to keep up with demand, you negate & overtake the benefits of it, pollution wise very quickly.

This is what a fuel company bod' told me how to stuff up the whole fuel pricing system, everyone orders diesel cars, then buy their diesel in bulk for long term storage.

The price of diesel hardly ever fluctuates. It's the fluctuations that make them their money and give them pricing power that goes on with petrol.