My friend's bad luck / lesson / query

Dauphin · 31-08-2007, 02:10 PM

Hi everyone,

One of my friends had a car accident last week. She claims the brakes simply didn't work when she used them as normal to slow down and she slammed into the back of the car in front at speed.

I don't have any photos.

The total of her car's damage was $7K and there is of course damage to the back of the car she hit.

The bad news is that she was three days late on renewing her insurance. She just got busy and it slipped. Her insurance claim has been refused because of this.

The car has been re-assessed as a write-off and the extra bad thing is that it is still under finance. She owes $9K on it. She has to pay for the towing, storage and damage for the other car.

All up, something like $20K instead of $450 or so.

But her story brings me back to what she said, that her brakes failed. What do others think of this happening in a modern car? I think it was a Hyundai or Kia, only a year or two old. Do you think that the mechanics or the manfacturer could be approached about this?

I would appreciate some opinions.

Thanks!

Riksta · 31-08-2007, 02:25 PM

Damn, that's not good at all. Hope she wasn't hurt in the accident.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauphin

The bad news is that she was three days late on renewing her insurance. She just got busy and it slipped. Her insurance claim has been refused because of this.

That's nuts! Mine comes out monthly, direct from my credit card. If for any reason it refuses payment, it tries again a set time after. The policy says the vehicle is still covered during this period, but if the next try fails then the policy classes as expired or whatever.

But this is why I always make sure mine is paid on time.

irlewy86 · 31-08-2007, 02:42 PM

I doubt it would help her get out of trouble. Was the handbrake also defective? My policy has a 14 day period after expiry to pay while I still have full cover. I feel sorry for her, it's Murphy's Law of insurance you can have it for 20 years without a single claim but the day you let it run out you'll write your car off.

Allen · 31-08-2007, 02:43 PM

Who is she insured with?

I once paid my insurance the day before it was set to expire, and sure enough the next day I received a letter stating that If I hadn't already paid I had a further 2 weeks to pay until it was offically expired. This is with Just Car insurance...

Sounds like a crappy situation to be in... Proves that insurance is always worth it.

Hopefully she can get somewhere with the manufacturer about the brakes failing, as that was the primary cause of the accident.

Dauphin · 31-08-2007, 02:52 PM

I don't think the majority of drivers would think to pull the handbrake in that split second of realisation. Would a standard handbrake lock the wheels doing something like 60 km/h in a straight line?

She was with RACV.

EA2BA · 31-08-2007, 03:06 PM

You may have a grace period to pay as in it will continue, but I would not expect ANY insurance company to pay up on a non-financial policy.

irlewy86 · 31-08-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauphin

I don't think the majority of drivers would think to pull the handbrake in that split second of realisation. Would a standard handbrake lock the wheels doing something like 60 km/h in a straight line?

She was with RACV.

In the eyes of the law (which is blind) yes you should be able to stop a vehicle without the aid of the primary hydraulic braking system. In the real world only about 0.0001% of drivers could probably pull it off. But to lay the blame on the brakes, you'll need very clean and detailed log books.

fordel · 31-08-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

Sounds like a crappy situation to be in... Proves that insurance is always worth it.

How can you say that ?

Insurance is always worth it, if she had paid it on time, she would only have to fork out the excess.

Its a pretty crappy company if they are going to expire the policy and not give any grace period

Smoke Pursuit · 31-08-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordel

How can you say that ?

Insurance is always worth it, if she had paid it on time, she would only have to fork out the excess.

Its a pretty crappy company if they are going to expire the policy and not give any grace period

Why should they...

When your milk runs outta date do you keep drinking it?

This is why I always pay my bills the day I get them.

Allen · 31-08-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordel

Insurance is always worth it, if she had paid it on time, she would only have to fork out the excess.

Err... Thats exactly the point I was making...

:

sfr rob · 31-08-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Why should they...

When your milk runs outta date do you keep drinking it?

This is why I always pay my bills the day I get them.

AMEN!

I know of plenty of people without insurance, I tend to steer clear of them when on the road.
Hope she learnt her lesson well and truly, i can see she will be paying that off for a long time.

kim and james · 31-08-2007, 04:07 PM

Your friends only chance might be if her insurance was handled through a broker. They may be able to help in covering her a$$. However in my opinion there is no excuse for not having insurance PARTICULARLY if you are under finance.

LUXO_8 · 31-08-2007, 04:13 PM

ive been in this exact situation..... a week overdue and i didnt know as i never recieved a letter stating the fact (at the time we had stupid kids that would take peoples mail..).... had an accident where i poked the nose out of a give way street as a guy ran a red light and cleaned me up.....
i was deemed at fault as i didnt give way.....which i wore..
put in the claim, which was knocked back due to being overdue.........thankfully both cars were XF's and the damage was fairly minor.. it cost me all up 5k, and i got a personal loan to pay off.

unfortunantly for the girl, i dont think theres any way she'll get out of it..... suck it up, get a loan if she's working and just pay it everything out and get a cheap car.

XR06T · 31-08-2007, 04:13 PM

there is definatly a 14 day grace period after you dont pay your insurance with just cars, i thought they were all the same!!

brakes failing on a 2 year old car = warranty issue. is she 100% sure she didn't mash the clutch? may be worth getting the car checked out.

in smaller cars the handbrake will lock the tyres closer to 80kph :P falcon, not sure that it locks the tyres at all......

**Charliewool** · 31-08-2007, 04:25 PM

Well ain't we all just holier than thou on here?... ALL SO perfectly organized, ALL SO immaculate in every financial dealing?
Honestly.. Some of you guys seem to get SUCH frigging pleasure laying the boots in on other's misfortunes whilst playing keyboard warrior!

As someone who was involved in a 5 car nose to tail (with me being the 5th car) at the tender age of 18 and with only a cover-note that had lapsed by a day, I CAN sincerely sympathize with your lady's plight!
From memory it took me til I was nearly 28 to clear the debt.
Back in the 70's $6000 was a fortune. Solicitors and insurance companies hounded me until they got every last cent too.
All I can suggest if the claim IS totally refused, is to make some sort of offer of a weekly/monthly payment system...and Keep your chin up!!

Rodp · 31-08-2007, 04:27 PM

Not wanting to sound harsh, but it would be more likely that she doesn't want to admit blame that she made a mistake so took the faulty brakes option. I'm sure a lot of people in her position would probably claim the same thing. I'm sure it would still be possible to check whether the pads are in good condition and the brakes actually work.

Harsh on the insurance running out though, but 3 days or 30 days doesn't really matter when the bill hasn't been paid. It's one of the reasons I get mine direct debited since I suck at paying bills!

Hunter · 31-08-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR06T

in smaller cars the handbrake will lock the tyres closer to 80kph :P falcon, not sure that it locks the tyres at all......

Haha knowing the Falcon handbrake design you're right, it probably wouldn't have much effect

.

Anyway, I find it a little odd that the brakes just stopped working... I doubt the manufacturer would do much unless it was proven beyond a doubt that the brakes failed as a result or poor design or manufacture and contributed to the accident.

Given the dollar value of the damage I'm going to assume the police were called (if not they should've been). Now I'm not a police officer or a crash investigator but they would almost certainly take down relevant facts and evidence if they're going to lay charges. If I were your friend I'd be getting the vehicle inspected by an independent inspector or crash investigator and get them to write a report - if its true and the brakes DID fail it is possible the manufacturer or even whoever worked on them last (e.g. did a brake pad change) might be liable.

I really do find it odd that brakes would just fail instantly, usually brake failure is a failure of the brake pad (e.g. none left!), loss of brake fluid and things of that nature - these don't just happen overnight and you would, if you paid enough attention, notice it. If the brake lines ruptured well they could be defective by design or manufacture - perhaps the car wasn't taken to a dealer to have TSBs applied to it?

Knowing females (and I'm going to get flamed/abused for this), most of them don't have a clue about cars and won't check anything or have it looked at. My sisters corolla makes a horrible grumbling noise at low speeds when turning, I told her it sounded odd to me and that she should get it checked - she tells me the mechanic who serviced it last said it was ok. It was a dealer and I don't trust them, it just feels wrong but she won't get it checked

:. My aunts tarago has a really shagged ball joint or something in the front and it knocks like a barn door in a cyclone! Do you think she notices it ? NUP. One day the wheel or suspension unit is going to want to part company with the rest of the vehicle

:

P.S. the court is not black and white - there's a thing called contributory negligence and the court will take into account the entire situation and all factors involved in the crash.

I was once involved in a minor nose to tail whereby my brakes were simply not good enough and I wasn't far enough back to account for their lack of effectiveness. the car was old and the brakes were really flaky. I had them checked by a mech and he said they were just like that from the factory (ie crap design). I'm pretty damn sure I wrote off the VR commodore I hit but I had insurance so I didn't get mega boned...

EA2BA · 31-08-2007, 04:46 PM

She says the brakes failed in a new car (well fairly new it sound slike it), I dont know how fast she was going or how close she was when she reliased she had to stop, but the car would have ABS, those not used to it, can indeed think the brakes did nothing if you just press them, ABS is meant to be jumped on in an emergency the car will stop as quick as it can, if thats not soon enough then you didn't have enough room to stop plain and simple.

EDIT: I just read it was a hyundai or kia, ABS would be optional chances are she didnt have it then.

EA2BA · 31-08-2007, 04:50 PM

You need to see if Hyundai or Kia can plug the computer in and see if any error codes come out, maybe try bluff them insurance requires a printout if possible, if you hint they me be at fault, I am sure any codes might accidentally get wiped.

Outbackjack · 31-08-2007, 04:52 PM

I feel sorry for her. Most insurance companies will try and get out of paying even if your policy is paid up to date. She is going to pay a high price for a simple mistake/oversite.

Dauphin · 31-08-2007, 05:11 PM

She was okay. The airbags didn't go off, apparently. I don't know her that well but I think she's dealing with it alright. Her family have been very supportive but it looks like it's back to the original finance company for an increase of the original amount to cover all of this. Thanks everyone, you've been very helpful. I'll tell her about a few things you have mentioned.

Interesting point re: ABS. The pulsing effect might surprise a few people who don't know how it works. I know she's had a few tickets in the past, even reaching a three month licence suspension a couple of years ago, so her driving style may raise a few questions.

S3SR · 31-08-2007, 06:05 PM

she should have rang and paid for it then and there over the phone.... wait for tow truck and police/ambulance then couple hours later report it

she wont get off lightly, especially from her driving record....unless RACV are gonna be nice and let her pay and her excess and maybe some more, otherwise if i know insurance companies...thats a win for them..... no pay out for either car

im glad shes ok, but shell learn from this

Steffo · 31-08-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Why should they...

When your milk runs outta date do you keep drinking it?

This is why I always pay my bills the day I get them.

Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to do that. Some people need to stretch pay cheque to pay cheque to get by, and may not initially have enough money to pay something that instant.

However, you can always call the insurance company and ask them to delay payment until XXXX date when you get your pay. I know I can with NRMA.

**Sorted** · 31-08-2007, 07:24 PM

Can't really use "Forgot to Pay Insurance"

:

She would of received her renewal notice 2 to 6 weeks prior to the renewal date........

Everyone knows when their insurance is due, everyone thinks damn it when their renewal notice arrives, its not something you would forget, its something you would delay to pay though..........

ANYWAY

She jumped the gun way too early, she should of paid for her insurance and asked for a receipt then lodged the claim BUT as she lodged the claim before she paid insurance she has really shot herself in the foot.

I can 99% gaurantee you that if she paid then lodged the claim she would of been covered as most insurer's wont cancel a policy and re-issue new cover if you paid 3 days late.

But yeah tough life lesson...............

Green X · 31-08-2007, 07:25 PM

I have had the brakes, well master cylinder Fail just like that, One second it's all fine then the next oh XHIT!! With 18Ft of boat in tow, I had to drop the auto tranny in 1st at 70km/h wile standing on the Brake pedal with both feet to pull up, it was like driving a 1930's truck with mechanical drum brakes only worse. the brake pedal had like 1inch of travel and it was rock hard.

It is possible that this is what happened to you friend, and not being derogatory to any lady members hear but because she was a Girl she probably didn't have the strength in the legs to get enough Force on the brake pedal to get em too work.

Cheers.

irsa76 · 31-08-2007, 08:16 PM

I've had brakes overheat a few times, feels like failure. I've noticed alot of the small, cheap runabouts like Kia and Hyundais have rather small solid discs and tiny rear drums so aren't that good to start with. Mind you, if she drives like everyother moron it wouldn't matter if she was in a new 911 with ceramic brakes. Nothing can go from 80km/h to 0 in 1 foot.
As for insurance, I think she's in strife.

EA2BA · 31-08-2007, 08:25 PM

My wifes Kia Cerato has 4 wheel discs and ABS one reason we bought it, (most others on offer had rear drums and these are new cars 12 months ago), and the price was good.

Yaw · 31-08-2007, 09:41 PM

You say the insurance was only 3 days late?
I urge you to check that fact first of all. By that I mean actually ask to see her insurance renewal. The reason i say this is that most insurers will send a renewal approx 3-4 weeks before it becomes due, then after the due date they usually allow 2 weeks for payment, then if no payment is recived most will then send a reminder notice. So in actual fact after the day of the annivesary of the policy is usally about 21 day period prior to it becomming a "lapsed" policy. So if the policy is in fact just 3 days past its renewal date, I suggest then that you escalte the matter to the insurance companies internal dispute service. What I would expect is them to over turn a descion if what you say is true, providing your friend pays immideatly the annual premium due, (yes the whole annual premium) and what ever excess then applies also and they should accept the claim, if they still refuse then take the next step to see the Insurance Ombudsman Service. (they will not see you before you have tried the previous steps)

If however the policy is lapsed because the 3 days you are talking about is actually 24 days your probably out of luck which is in most peoples eyes a fair call.

**Sorted** · 31-08-2007, 11:29 PM

Yaw we are talking about RACV here....... a direct marketer, I have not heard of them sending out "reminders" or "overdue" statements........ i could be wrong as they may of changed their underwriting guidelines BUT no insurer will honour a claim after the "expiry" date if an extension of cover is not agreed upon or a held cover period is stated on the renewal notice.

Brokers have guidelines where they must send a renewal notice at least 14 days prior to renewal THEN a statement if the premium is not paid by renewal THEN a 7 day expiry letter if the policy is still not paid advising the client if the don't pay the policy within 7 days it will be cancelled THEN if they still don't pay a cancellation notice.

Direct Marketers do not run by these guidelines.

red_hotxr6 · 01-09-2007, 08:18 AM

Go and get some legal advice, could save you thousands, or your friend actually.