What engine into my car?

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 12:34 AM

Hi all,

I know I don't own a Ford at the moment but i've owned 9 of them, and this is still Ford related :P

I just picked up a 1967 Mercedes Benz 250SE.. black.. in excellent condition except the auto box is leaking and apparently not worth fixing. Considering the engine is also original '67 with no rebuild or anything, i'm thinking next year i'll pull it all out and throw in something like an EA-EB XR8 engine or a 302 from an XC or something..

I'm looking for ideas!

Preferably realistic and nothing too insane as i'm not loaded and i'm no mechanic.. I won't be doing it myself.. so labour costs come into the equation.

Cheers.

Mike Gayner · 02-10-2005, 05:55 AM

I'd go a clevo if it were me, if not for the grunt then just for the sound. Go a 351 though, same size but heaps more power. I can see the merits in an injected 5.0 mind you...

TURBOTAXI · 02-10-2005, 07:09 AM

What about a 1JZ or 1UZ-FE you will pay the same money (or less) for the conversion parts, but you will get better engineering and more refinement. Being a 67, you have very few ADR's to comply with - you can pretty much stuff anything into it.

Dodge · 02-10-2005, 07:58 AM

i had a 67 230 sl and had the original 6 banger in her , but a alloy rover twin turbo would have been the ducks nuts . it has to be light or they wont steer

jonbays · 02-10-2005, 09:00 AM

My dad has done a 230 wagon and sedan engine conversion using the 4.1 alloy head and borgwarner 3 speed auto. With a change to the 450 diff ratio it all went well. nice and torquey to drive but not fast. Still much faster than his 280.

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 03:39 PM

Thanks guys

Forgot to mention i'm not after a specifically 'fast' car..

This is more just to do something different.. but obviously also to make a big improvement over stock as well..

Injected is appealing for obvious reasons, but I also love my mates XC.. the sound, the look of it, everything.. so it's a hard choice..

I thought about going jap.. we've pondered everything from SR20DETs to RB30's to a 20B rotor.. but in the end.. I love Ford (this being one of only a few non-ford cars i've owned), and if i'm going to the effort of changing the engines etc i'd like to put a Ford engine in it

Keep the ideas flowing.

Also any suggestions for someone who'd take on this job for me.. as I said I don't have the knowledge to do it myself.

02-10-2005, 03:59 PM

Perhaps keep a benz engine in there.... AMG SLK 55?

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 04:09 PM

Argon: You gunna lend me the money? ;)

My original idea was to rebuild the existing engine and box, and then supercharge it.. as you can get an original benz supercharger for this engine second hand for about a grand.

Problem is.. MONEY.

Merc engines aren't cheap to rebuild properly, aren't cheap to fix, and DEFINITELY aren't cheap to replace with another benz engine.

Hence the idea to put something different in

Also i'm juts a big fan of '****ing purists off' so to speak.. putting diff engines into cars.

If putting a Ford engine in proves to be too much, I guess i'll have to reconsider fixing up the existing engine and providing it with some boost.

TZENU · 02-10-2005, 04:26 PM

i wonder what it'd be like with a 5.4 8 or even the XR6T motor and boxes???
that'll be different for sure!

smoo · 02-10-2005, 04:28 PM

A lot of Windsors ans SBC's have been swapped into them in the US. Clearing the crossmember seems to be the biggest issue.

Personally I'd keep it Mercedes. The old DOHC M110 I6s are an awesome engine, they must have been state of the art back in the day. They should bolt straight in but I think you'll need the g/b too. Find an old wrecked (rusty maybe) 1970s/early 80s 280S in good mechanical order. Easy mods can be done to get a bit more power too and leaves quite a lot of room in the engine bay.

Or you could do the M117 V8 from the 450/500/560 Mercs. You'll need the whole drive line, including a taller rear end. They sound awesome but it will be expensive to buy and maintain (pulling the engine and g/box together outa my 560 and putting it back in was quoted about $2000 labour!). You will have trouble with other things in the engine room such as steering rack and radiator too. Not a cheap option. Both American and Mercedes V8 options will need stronger than stock 6 cylinder front suspension - more $$$.

Apparantly the Buick 3.8 V6s have been done in the US but I haven't looked into that option, this could also be cheap in Oz as well.

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 04:47 PM

Would a ford injected 6 be a better (read: Easier/cheaper) option?

As I said i'm not necessarily after huge power, just something better than the existing engine and something different. Also i'd like to modify the engine and it's a lot cheaper to mod a Ford engine than a Merc one!

Smoo: I'm still learning about these old mercs, would consider keeping it merc all depends on money. I'd rather pay a bit more for something unique.. but if it's a LOT more I might reconsider.

**GasoLane** · 02-10-2005, 05:09 PM

I've got a 1978 fuel injected V12 Jag motor you can have for 2k, I'll throw in the Jag body and the 5 speed Supra G'box for free.

Might need to beef up the front end on the Merc a bit tho'

RavenLS1 · 02-10-2005, 05:17 PM

go a 4ag super charged jap motor,ive got one for 2500k if you want oh and gearbox

smoo · 02-10-2005, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToasterOn22s

Would a ford injected 6 be a better (read: Easier/cheaper) option?

As I said i'm not necessarily after huge power, just something better than the existing engine and something different. Also i'd like to modify the engine and it's a lot cheaper to mod a Ford engine than a Merc one!

Smoo: I'm still learning about these old mercs, would consider keeping it merc all depends on money. I'd rather pay a bit more for something unique.. but if it's a LOT more I might reconsider.

It might be easier to get info and parts if taking the Windsor/SBC route via North American conversions, as opposed to the Ford I6. I'd guess that getting hold of an I6 will be easier on the wallet than a 5.0 or 5.7 etc.

The M110 that I mentioned should drop straight in though. Change the fuel delivery system to suit the fuel injection, and it should be delivering 135kw stock. Pretty impressive from the early '70s!
It wont be as unique as a Ford I6 but imo the Merc 2.8 has much more character and is smoother than the Ford , and it'll keep the enthuiasts happy

: . It also doesn't have as much torque as the 4.0 but once its moving it'll be alright. But your Benz wouldn't be as heavy as following S Classes with the same engine, and I have only experienced the engine in the heavier W116 and 126 series, which weren't too bad. Looking back at old road tests I think they did 0-100 in 9.5 secs.

Cheapest option would probably be the Ford 4.0 or Merc 2.8. If you go the Ford maybe you could look at turbocharging, and make it really stand out.

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 06:52 PM

Waggajag: As much as i'd love to put a V12 badge on the back of the merc.. I just don't see it happening ;)

PSIWGN: Thanks for the offer but i'm after minimum of 6 cylinders. 4AGZE's do go hard though.. mate has one in a KE30 rolla and it's a hell of a lot of fun!

Smoo: thanks for all the info.. appreciate it heaps.. that's why I love this forum

Will look into the 2.8.. though the 4.0 and turbo'ing it is more along my lines :P Will try find someone willing to tackle this sort of job and get a few quotes.. that'll be the deciding factor. I've designated about $6-10k all up for mechanicals.. so whicever gets me the most bang-for-buck in that price wins a place in my engine bay

SSbaby · 02-10-2005, 07:02 PM

See my sig. :sm_headba :hihi:

**ebxr8240** · 02-10-2005, 07:26 PM

One of these?? Or a tuff 4 cyl / v6 from commercial series...
Either turbo or n/a would do the job....

PH47 · 02-10-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

What about a 1JZ or 1UZ-FE you will pay the same money (or less) for the conversion parts, but you will get better engineering and more refinement. Being a 67, you have very few ADR's to comply with - you can pretty much stuff anything into it.

Hey man never looked into one of these, have heard of them but just didn't cross my mind.

Why would it be cheaper to put in? Just curious.

I also like the idea of a turbo 4.0i ford..

Decisions...

:

Anyone know a good workshop that doesn't mind lots of questions? and doesn't mind thinking 'different'? The ones up here (blue mountains) just tell me to rebuild the engine and leave it at that.. pfft.. boring.

Supa R00 · 02-10-2005, 09:38 PM

Nissan RB25 or 26.... mmmmm!!!

Mike Gayner · 03-10-2005, 05:25 AM

I'd go the 4.0 if I were you.

T_Terror · 03-10-2005, 08:18 AM

If ur gonna **** off the purists then put in a rotary.

XR Martin · 03-10-2005, 10:34 AM

I like the idea of the LS1, because you can easily get 300kw and still get good economy.
The same cant be said for some dirty old carby V8.

And the Jag V12 had me cracking up, he wanted to fix the oil leak it has, not add 10 more

:

XR Martin · 03-10-2005, 10:35 AM

I like the idea of the LS1, because you can easily get 300kw and still get good economy.
The same cant be said for some dirty old carby V8.

And the Jag V12 had me cracking up, he wanted to fix the oil leak it has, not add 10 more

:

**ebxr8240** · 03-10-2005, 11:21 AM

The way things are going ?? A turbo diesel ???
Or something like a Subaru boxer engine???
Haha that hasn't been done before ????....

BuuBox · 03-10-2005, 12:13 PM

Something like a 1JZ-GTE (or a 2JZ-GTE, but more $$$) would be the go. Lots of torque, nice smooth strait six, and already (twin) turbocharged, meaning it'd be a fair bit cheaper than buying and turboing a Falcon six. As much of a Ford fan as I am, you can't argue with 206kw and 363 Nm for $1500, especially with the ability to turn up the boost later.

Japanese Motorsport in Adelaide have a few:
Toyota 1JZ auto engine,box $1500
Toyota 1JZ auto engine,box,loom,ecu $1800

Try and find a VVT version of the IJZ if you're keen, even more torque down lower, and a less complex single turbo arangement. They're newer though, and probably not worth the price premium. Going from a 2.5 litre strait six (right?) to a 2.5 litre strait six has gotta help too. Toyota reliability doesn't hurt either, and these engines have been known to support some fairly serious horsepower.

**ebxr8240** · 03-10-2005, 01:39 PM

Yea thats the engine I posted above....

BuuBox · 03-10-2005, 01:43 PM

Yeah, I know... but you didn't supply the model or any specs, so I thought I'd fill in the blanks, that's all :P

PH47 · 05-10-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Terror

If ur gonna **** off the purists then put in a rotary.

20B is already on the list of "maybes" .. but that's a very expensive option.

BuuBox thanks for all that info.. the 1JZ seems like a pretty good economical option.. will definitely put that on the list of engines to chekc out as well.

Thanks for all the advice guys

Steffo · 05-10-2005, 12:49 AM

Get the 5.6 V8 from the W126 560SEC/SEL. Was the Flagship Mercedes engine in the late 1980's, put out 335hp (250kW) in stock form. They shouldn't be too expensive, and it keeps it in the Mercedes family. Then get the heads ported... and figure out how to turbocharge the sucker... mmm 5.6 turbo Benz V8....

MITCHAY · 05-10-2005, 12:51 AM

What about some sort of Nissan engine? Dont know if it would work but for a V8 route a VH45DE or for a forced route maybe VG30DETT. Just something to consider.