Digital top boxes/tvs

[bindi]

Hey all,

I think this has been posted about before, but I'm still quite mushroomesque about how this technology works.

Ok question time!
1) Do I need a satellite dish (I've got a foxtel one sitting on the edge of the house, unused) or can I use my traditional antenna?

2) I understand that if I were to get a digital top box, I could only watch/tape one channel, unlike normal tv where you can watch one channel while taping another. Are there digital tvs on the market where I can watch one channel while taping another?

3) Are there any particular brands of tvs or top boxes I should avoid?

It's just that I want abc2, because they are now showing CNNNN and I can't watch it on what we have now... and I love that show. And I suppose the deadline is approaching, where analogue will disappear (when is that exactly?!?!).

[Falcon Coupe]

Bindi i connected my plasma and digital box up to my standard aerial and coax cable, it works really well, but would be better with digital aerial i'm told, i lost my VCR, it's not digital compatible, when buying the set top box, i would get one with a built in hard drive then you can still record TV programs.
Edit : BTW the digital signal cleaned the picture for ABC and SBS to the same quality as the other stations they were both very scratchy through the same aerial when it was analouge.

[MrSparkle]

Digital Broadcasting Australia website, should answer all you can throw at it.

http://www.dba.org.au/

I picked up a cheapass HDTV set top box off ebay for $130 odd (prestigious brand of Digicrystal - but apparently has one of the latest LG tuners), and it's done a great job. No need to go overboard with $800+ ones unless you need it to do something other than recieve and display digital transmissions

[will_]

you can have a cable to your vcr non digital from your digital tuner so you can tape with your vcr whilst you watch another channel on digital.

[Casper]

I guess its not much help but I couldnt be bothered going through all the hassle of learning what to get/need etc for digital so I just got Fox cable digital and it did it all for me... plus more channels then Optus has... and free install at the time.

[Kieron]

1. No, just a normal antenna.

2. Its in the wiring. From the main antenna cable, get a 2 way splitter cable and run one wire to the STB and the other to the video, some STB's may have an additional RF out, if so plug main antenna cable into RF in on STB and run a cable from STB's RF out to Videos RF in.

Then of course, hook both devices to TV.
This will give you digital TV viewing and analog video recording.

If your look at the hard disk STB's (actually called PVR's - Personal Video Recorders), look for one with twin digital tuners, this will allow you to watch one channel digitally (and do the time slipping etc) while recording another. JB HiFi have some great deals on these things.



Brand wise, i'm not sure. They are simple devices and many appear to have the same main component, stick with SDTV unless you have a trick TV, you can't go to far wrong with the $80 ones in my view.

[K_Man]

Originally Posted by bindi

And I suppose the deadline is approaching, where analogue will disappear (when is that exactly?!?!).

I think it was 2008, but it's been pushed out to 2012? Either way, it isn't going to happen.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by K_Man

I think it was 2008, but it's been pushed out to 2012? Either way, it isn't going to happen.

Foxtel (and probaly Optus) will be discontinueing analog broadcasts on PayTV in 2007/2008. They have already committed to it. I suspect that ABC and Channel 9 wont be too long after. 7 and 10 still havent switched over to digital anyhow.

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Kieron

1. No, just a normal antenna.

2. Its in the wiring. From the main antenna cable, get a 2 way splitter cable and run one wire to the STB and the other to the video, some STB's may have an additional RF out, if so plug main antenna cable into RF in on STB and run a cable from STB's RF out to Videos RF in.

Then of course, hook both devices to TV.
This will give you digital TV viewing and analog video recording.

If your look at the hard disk STB's (actually called PVR's - Personal Video Recorders), look for one with twin digital tuners, this will allow you to watch one channel digitally (and do the time slipping etc) while recording another. JB HiFi have some great deals on these things.



Brand wise, i'm not sure. They are simple devices and many appear to have the same main component, stick with SDTV unless you have a trick TV, you can't go to far wrong with the $80 ones in my view.

Partially correct, connecting the coax aerial lead to the TV via the VCR and the STB will still only give you analog TV. You need to connect the AV output of the STB to the AV input of your TV (the red, white and yellow lead usually supplied). This will allow you to watch digital whilst recording on your VCR in analog any channel thats tuned in.

Matty

[Kieron]

Which is why I said get a splitter cable for the main antenna cable and connect one wire to the STB and one wire to the video Matty

your correct on the AV STB out to AV TV in, I glanced over that a little, presuming it would be obvious

[CarBroker]

I have 2 HD cards in my computer (as well as a HD set top box that I got cheap from Grays Online). So I can watch something and tape another 2 channels @ the same time (onto the HDD). I use Videoredo to cut out the ads. Over the 18 months that I've had this setup , I have realised:
1. I don't watch "live" TV anymore. It's totally (but unintentionally) changed the way I watch TV.
2. I never see ads. When someone says "have u seen the ad for xyz..." I never know what they're on about.
3. I couldn't live without my HTPC (i.e. my computer) and the ability to record to the HDD.
4. I am soooo grateful that my kids never have to watch ads. They're only 3 and 6 and I see other people's kids being so obsessed with McDonalds and the latest toys etc. and it's (mostly) directly traceable to the ads.

Just one point re the splitter: Make sure you use decent cables. I use a 4 way splitter. I had a major headache working out that one of the cables was not good enuff quality and was giving me pixelation on one of the HTPC cards. I now use only cables from Jaycar. They're still very cheap, but I was using one *really* cheap cable to start with.

One more thing: High Definition is much better than Standard Definition in most cases, but *only* if your TV can handle it. I use an 86cm HD CRT. CRT is still the best quality picture you can get, but it's limited to 86cm unfortunately (although they are working on bigger CRT screens for the future I believe). If you have loads of cash and don't really care about the picture quality, go for plasma.

[CarBroker]

I also have to add that once you go widescreen and High Definition, you must of course convert your Xbox or PS2 to HD and wide screen as well. I have an Xbox, and playing on std def 4:3 is incredibly bad compared to HD 16:9.

[Matty4]

I'm pretty sure that every STB will have an RF in and RF out, just like a VCR, so there's no need for the splitter.

Easiest way to conect is like this:
Main aerial coax to RF in on STB, RF out of STB into RF in on VCR, RF out of VCR into RF in (aerial socket) on TV.

The RF inputs and outputs are there so you don't need the splitter. Using the splitter won't allow you to use the video as a second tuner to watch analog with and check OSD of your video programming, as you won't have an output from it to the TV, unless you use the AV output into a second AV input on the TV.

Cheers,
Matty

[RED_EL_XR8]

Just connect your existing aerial!!! Um maybe!

Digital channels are slotted adjacent the existing channels in the VHF bands (Sydney Regions) and same in UHF. CH12 in particular is used and many aerials were never designed to receive it. If you antenna gives poor reception with analogue it will likely be poor with Digital too.

You will receive a perfect ghost free picture but instead suffer lock-ups and pixelation, and audio pop that sound like your speaker cones have left the enclosures. Many older masthead amps etc will not cope with the extra digital channels.

Most newer aerials will be fine and if you CAN get acceptable pictures on analogue you can get perfect digital pictures with the right aerial. Don't forget the RG6 Quad shield cable or even RG11 if you want the best.

As sparkle suggested www.dba.org.au or contact Matchmaster. And remember you get what you pay for, one of those digicrystal boxes that was fine in good signal area was useless at fringe reception, a almost as cheap Samsung box worked fine in the same location.

[bindi]

This has been very educational, thanks everyone!

I will try to get all this in my head and may stuff about on my dad's system first. He will be interested in fixing it so he can watch one channel while taping another just by stuffing about with cabling! _2:

My tv is not HD, although that may change in the next couple of years. I know I need a new vcr cos the dog ate the remote and it had all my programming capabilities on it grrrrrrrrr.

I will print some of these posts out so I can go through it step by step, and I will get some good cabling from Jaycar.

I'm not into spending serious amounts of cash on anything really so the $80-$100 top box price is good enough for me! :yeees:

And Red, the antenna was put up with good cabling over 15 years ago in this house, and is still giving brilliant quality pictures now. I ain't fixin' what ain't broke (especially considering where the antenna is - about 2.5 storeys off the ground). :hihi:

[CarBroker]

*If* you have the time and inclination to go the HTPC way, then go to http://forums.dvbowners.com/ as it is the best source for info on cards and software.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by bindi

This has been very educational, thanks everyone!

I will try to get all this in my head and may stuff about on my dad's system first. He will be interested in fixing it so he can watch one channel while taping another just by stuffing about with cabling! _2:

My tv is not HD, although that may change in the next couple of years. I know I need a new vcr cos the dog ate the remote and it had all my programming capabilities on it grrrrrrrrr.

I will print some of these posts out so I can go through it step by step, and I will get some good cabling from Jaycar.

I'm not into spending serious amounts of cash on anything really so the $80-$100 top box price is good enough for me! :yeees:

And Red, the antenna was put up with good cabling over 15 years ago in this house, and is still giving brilliant quality pictures now. I ain't fixin' what ain't broke (especially considering where the antenna is - about 2.5 storeys off the ground). :hihi:

Good cabling? 15 years ago? doubt its the good gear. Read what I said, it MAY work fine. If it doesn't you know where to look first.

Another tip if anyone is plagued by the clicks and PoooP-SSSSSSSSSSSSS, if you had them you'll know what I mean. A seperate true earth via a stake and bonded to the first splitter or tee can remove lots of the impulse noise interference.

[MrSparkle]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

JAnd remember you get what you pay for, one of those digicrystal boxes that was fine in good signal area was useless at fringe reception, a almost as cheap Samsung box worked fine in the same location.

Well actually we are in a truly crap reception area and it works every bit as good as my housemates $600 unit. Both using the same common antenna! :

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle

Well actually we are in a truly crap reception area and it works every bit as good as my housemates $600 unit. Both using the same common antenna! :

That is possible too. Think worked fine everywhere else, I've bought a few. Impulse noise is the big killer
.

[donno]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Another tip if anyone is plagued by the clicks and PoooP-SSSSSSSSSSSSS, if you had them you'll know what I mean. A seperate true earth via a stake and bonded to the first splitter or tee can remove lots of the impulse noise interference.

Borrowed a mates HDTV card for bathurst and loved the quality, but man those pops peaved me off just using a set of old rabbit ears. Does anyone know of a good indoor antenna for digital? I live at college and can't exactly put an exterial one in. Cheers.

[Firefox7]

Originally Posted by bindi

This has been very educational, thanks everyone!

I will try to get all this in my head and may stuff about on my dad's system first. He will be interested in fixing it so he can watch one channel while taping another just by stuffing about with cabling! _2:

My tv is not HD, although that may change in the next couple of years. I know I need a new vcr cos the dog ate the remote and it had all my programming capabilities on it grrrrrrrrr.

I will print some of these posts out so I can go through it step by step, and I will get some good cabling from Jaycar.

I'm not into spending serious amounts of cash on anything really so the $80-$100 top box price is good enough for me! :yeees:

And Red, the antenna was put up with good cabling over 15 years ago in this house, and is still giving brilliant quality pictures now. I ain't fixin' what ain't broke (especially considering where the antenna is - about 2.5 storeys off the ground). :hihi:

If your getting good quality pictures off your existing antenna, then pluging in a Digital set top box, you should have no problem at all...but there is a catch as to what red was referring to. It really depends on your location. For optimum performance, quad sheild RG6 cable will be the better solution. Some older wiring for example, air core...or foam core RG59 will be subjective to much higher interference depending on were you live. You don't need RG11. This cable is mainly for Units and townhouse's running a Backbone system.

Most Digital set top boxes have an antenna in, then a Loop out. You plug your antenna cable to antenna in on the DSTB ...then run a cable from loop out to the video's antenna in...then run a cable from the video's RF out to the televisions Ant connection. If the Vcr is already tuned to say channel 1 on the Tv this stays as is. Run a set of 3 way RCA's from the DSTB ( Digital Set Top Box) to an AV in port on the back of the Tele...This way you can watch a channel on the DSTB on say AV1...and record channel 9 at the same time. I bought a DG-Tech mainly because it was the only High Definition box available at the time and because I run a BenQ projector. I am also in a bad signal area but never had a problem with it. My signal does bottom out at around 50 db where the perfect noiseless DB rate is 66 db for a standard perfect picture. I do a lot of work for Broadcast Services Australia and am currently the Supervisor of the Hunter region so in newcastle i'll drop in and set it up for you for nothing if you have any trouble. :hihi:


Cheers.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Firefox7

If your getting good quality pictures off your existing antenna, then pluging in a Digital set top box, you should have no problem at all...but there is a catch as to what red was referring to. It really depends on your location. For optimum performance, quad sheild RG6 cable will be the better solution. Some older wiring for example, air core...or foam core RG59 will be subjective to much higher interference depending on were you live. You don't need RG11. This cable is mainly for Units and townhouse's running a Backbone system.

Most Digital set top boxes have an antenna in, then a Loop out. You plug your antenna cable to antenna in on the DSTB ...then run a cable from loop out to the video's antenna in...then run a cable from the video's RF out to the televisions Ant connection. If the Vcr is already tuned to say channel 1 on the Tv this stays as is. Run a set of 3 way RCA's from the DSTB ( Digital Set Top Box) to an AV in port on the back of the Tele...This way you can watch a channel on the DSTB on say AV1...and record channel 9 at the same time. I bought a DG-Tech mainly because it was the only High Definition box available at the time and because I run a BenQ projector. I am also in a bad signal area but never had a problem with it. My signal does bottom out at around 50 db where the perfect noiseless DB rate is 66 db for a standard perfect picture. I do a lot of work for Broadcast Services Australia and am currently the Supervisor of the Hunter region so in newcastle i'll drop in and set it up for you for nothing if you have any trouble. :hihi:


Cheers.

Yes Foxie your right you don't need RG11 for most domestic situations, (I do have one we've just dumped 300M of the stuff into - with good reason) but the thought of mere mortals battling with the connectors was just too good an opportunity to pass up. : And the for those who appreciate the pose value of $300 audio patch leads, RG11 will be the next **** factor on-sell to a cashed up public.

The RF pass thru on most of these boxes is fairly dubious and when you need Antenna input to multiple boxes and are utilizing a AV or digital outputs I'd recommend the antenna signal goes directly to each device.

[Firefox7]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Yes Foxie your right you don't need RG11 for most domestic situations, (I do have one we've just dumped 300M of the stuff into - with good reason) but the thought of mere mortals battling with the connectors was just too good an opportunity to pass up. : And the for those who appreciate the pose value of $300 audio patch leads, RG11 will be the next **** factor on-sell to a cashed up public.

The RF pass thru on most of these boxes is fairly dubious and when you need Antenna input to multiple boxes and are utilizing a AV or digital outputs I'd recommend the antenna signal goes directly to each device.

Right red..over 300m Rg11 is crucial...RG6 will need a pass through amp over that distance or anything over 50 metres. Rg6 loss per metre per Db is around 0.2 db per metre. Rg 11 is around...0.019 per dB per metre almost loss less depending on brand.


Cheers.

[dogwatch2]

I've got a basic Teac Standard Definition approx. $120 It works fine, someone I Know has a woolies special approx. $69 - it is a bit ordinary - the picture edges are bowed. My brother got a digicrystal off ebay for about $100 delivered and it works well too. Teac have a dual tuner/hard drive available for under $600, but I haven't heard what it's like. That's the sort of thing I'll get when their under $400.