Digital set top boxes

[svo347]

Ok to compliment a dvd recorder whats the story with Digital set top boxes, what exactly do they do, are they worth it & is the picture really that much better???
Thanx again peoples the input has been invaluable.

[rag top]

I use both Digital and Analogue signals on my tv. IMO, a well tuned analogue signal is just as good as a Digital signal.
If you are in a poor analouge reception area and have digital coverage, it is worth it.
As for set top boxes, my guess is they will come down in price over the next few years especially as more and more people buy them and the range increases.

[Quasi]

You will find that clarity of picture is the advantage of one, but you need to weigh up the cost, versus useability. My brother has one, but the 'Special' digital options don't yet work on all channels for him.

One other thing to keep in mind, is that there are versions of these boxes that can record up to 50 hours of programs, and some on more than one channel at once......Bye Bye VCR!

[Racecraft]

maybe ask Sox, he has a Picture Cinema in his lounge room afaik

[EFFalcon]

a mate of mine got a cheapo one off ebay a few days ago.
picture quality has deffinately improved, he had analogue signal problems which is now fixed with the digital signal.
if its cheap enough, i'd say its worth it.

[bindi]

Yeah BUT! AFAIK, you can't record on one channel and watch another through the top box. You can do that through analogue on your tv, but with digital it's like Foxtel. The digital signal is set up to go through ONE of your channels on the tv only.

That is why I am wondering about digital tvs. If you have the digital signal coming through your tv and it decodes it inside the tv itself, then you can tape one channel and watch another.

Also when does the analogue tv signal get turned off, isn't it soon? Then we all have to have digital.

And when you have serious weather issues (large amounts of cloud cover, thunderstorms etc) the signal disappears and you get a blue screen.

I wish I could keep my analogue signal because it seems more reliable than digital, but of course it is a decision forced upon me, yet again. Gives me the sh*ts.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Even the cheapo Digital set top boxes work well and and there is little point in buying a High Definition box to use on a Standard Definition set.

One word of warning, CH10 and ABC Digital VHF transmissions fall outside the fequency range of 2-10 that many existing antennas were designed for, so you may see mild to severe signal degredation on these channels. IE: dropouts.

Older Masthead ampliffiers etc, can also badly affect digital signals on some channels.

So an Antenna upgrade may be in order for some! If you need an antenna make sure you spec it for digital and make sure all cables are swapped for RG-6 when its done.

[Sox]

Picture quality is better than analogue, though only if you have a monitor which is capable of this better performance.
On a 10 year old set, you won't see much improvement, if any.

Digital is different to analogue as far as signal strength is concerned. Poor signal strength with analogue will show grainy images, ghosting, snow, etc, though in many cases it is still watchable.
Digital is either on or off, meaning if you had medium to good signal strength before, you are pretty much garanteed a perfect signal with digital.
If your image was average to very poor, you may not receive a signal at all, or at best lots of dropouts.
Most of the time, it isn't necessary to upgrade antennas if signal strength was ok.

Connectivity is better, with most of the cheap boxes having composite, S-video, and stereo audio outs, with the better boxes adding component, and digital audio (either via coax or opt).
This is of course will only interest those who are able to make use of these connections.

HD (high definition) is a complete waste of time for most, as it takes the more expensive plasmas or projectors to resolve HD images.
From my experience there isn't a great deal of difference between image quality of the SD (standard definition) boxes, though there are significant differences in reliability and 'quirkiness'.

We have been told that analogue signals will cease in 2008, however I suspect that will not be the case, as DTV has not taken off very well.

This will answer any other questions you may have.
http://www.dba.org.au/

Rick.

[Tote]

Agreed , the forums om dba.com.au are most useful. I had pretty ordinary reception on analogue but plenty of signal strength. Bought a TEAC DVB-420 box for $180.00 and am pretty happy with it. MUCH better reception and stereo sound. I have had it lock up a couple of times in the last six months but that is easily fixed by pulling the plug. Supposedly some programs also transmit Dolby but I'm yet to be convinced. For $200.00 you can't go wrong and at least TEAC provide local research and firmware upgrades.
I think Retra vision have them on special at the moment for $160.00
http://stb.teac.com.au/

Regards,
Tote

[svo347]

Cheers people. Very imformative.
ill just get the dvd recorder for now me thinks.

[Thunder Kiss]

Originally Posted by Tote

Supposedly some programs also transmit Dolby but I'm yet to be convinced.

Yes Tote, you are correct, some stations transmit in Dolby Digital 2.0 in standard definition (others use MPEG stereo). When movies are broadcast in high definition they are usually accompanied with a Dolby Digital 5.1 sound track, but of course you require a high definition box to receive these.

The other thing no one has mentioned yet is digital transmissions are broadcast in widescreen (when recorded/filmed that way) so you see more of the show.

When you get the DVD recorder, svo347, make sure it's compatible with widesceen anamorphic signals. That way you can record everything in 16:9 widescreen but those recordings can still be played back correctly (not distorted) on both 4:3 and 16:9 TVs.

[svo347]

Done deal mate.
Thanx

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by bindi

That is why I am wondering about digital tvs. If you have the digital signal coming through your tv and it decodes it inside the tv itself, then you can tape one channel and watch another.

correct me if I'm wrong, but no TV changes the picture from analogue to digital. You have to buy a set top box to send the digital signal to the TV which is capable of displaying higher quality due to it being digital and having greater resolution.

I bought a Digital 76cm widescreen recently, but I won't have digital picture till I buy a set top box. I find the picture is distorted in its aspect ratio with a widescreen, the set top box would fix this with the channels on digital, would it not?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Pilch

correct me if I'm wrong, but no TV changes the picture from analogue to digital. You have to buy a set top box to send the digital signal to the TV which is capable of displaying higher quality due to it being digital and having greater resolution.

There are a handful of displays with digital decoding built in.
BTW, SD digital is no higher in definition than analogue, HD signals are (though not all).

I bought a Digital 76cm widescreen recently, but I won't have digital picture till I buy a set top box. I find the picture is distorted in its aspect ratio with a widescreen, the set top box would fix this with the channels on digital, would it not?

Yes, though you should be able to set the aspect ratio on your display too, though you will end up with black bars down the sides.

Rick.

[Pilch]

Originally Posted by Sox

There are a handful of displays with digital decoding built in.
BTW, SD digital is no higher in definition than analogue, HD signals are (though not all).

I was told I'd get better quality with a digital signal with SD. HD would increase quality even more (even though tv ain't HD) but the improvement would be negligible.

Originally Posted by Sox

Yes, though you should be able to set the aspect ratio on your display too, though you will end up with black bars down the sides.

Rick.

Yes, I can get the standard 4:3 ratio with black space down the side, but it still looks better as a full screen with it stretched out. With digital I'd get a widescreen picture (16:9) that is completely in proportion.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Pilch

I was told I'd get better quality with a digital signal with SD.

Don't underestimate the quality of analogue broadcast, unless your display is of very high quality ($2000+), it is unlikely you'll see any difference if you are receiving a good signal.

HD would increase quality even more (even though tv ain't HD) but the improvement would be negligible.

HD won't change a thing on a SD display, unless perhaps the display can produce a progressive signal, though that's not true HD anyway, but that's another story.

Yes, I can get the standard 4:3 ratio with black space down the side, but it still looks better as a full screen with it stretched out. With digital I'd get a widescreen picture (16:9) that is completely in proportion.

I personally don't like stretched images, though black bars also shit me.

You're correct, with a digital box, you would receive a lot of widescreen material, though many programs are still in 4:3.

Rick.

[bindi]

Originally Posted by Pilch

correct me if I'm wrong, but no TV changes the picture from analogue to digital. You have to buy a set top box to send the digital signal to the TV which is capable of displaying higher quality due to it being digital and having greater resolution.

Well I am sure I have seen the odd one which does indeed decode the digital signal - and that's the tv I am after. Don't want a top box, waste of friggin time I reckon.

And I get the feeling that that is the way technology is going to go. In a couple of years your tv and top box will be defunct and you will have to fork out for a tv that can decode the digital signal.

That is why I am hanging out and not bothering with a top box just at this time.

And also that is what bugs me about Hardly Normal etc... still selling "normal" tvs in an attempt to drag as much money as possible out of the public, and then in a few years you will have to do it all over again when you realise you should not have bought that $10,000 plasma screen ANALOGUE tv in 2005 - you should have waited for the digital decoder tvs.

Just my thoughts... :

[Sox]

Originally Posted by bindi

Well I am sure I have seen the odd one which does indeed decode the digital signal - and that's the tv I am after. Don't want a top box, waste of friggin time I reckon.

And I get the feeling that that is the way technology is going to go. In a couple of years your tv and top box will be defunct and you will have to fork out for a tv that can decode the digital signal.

That is why I am hanging out and not bothering with a top box just at this time.

And also that is what bugs me about Hardly Normal etc... still selling "normal" tvs in an attempt to drag as much money as possible out of the public, and then in a few years you will have to do it all over again when you realise you should not have bought that $10,000 plasma screen ANALOGUE tv in 2005 - you should have waited for the digital decoder tvs.

Just my thoughts... :

Your thoughts are wrong Bindi.

Most displays of the future will have no decoding at all, either analogue or digital.
Digital STB's will be the norm in all households.

Rick.

[parawolf]

What I want in the future is a dual HD digital tuner with DVI output (none of these analogue component outputs stuff) with 160+GB HD for time slip recording and programmed recording. Also DVD-DL (dual layer) for output to DVD's when I want

Shame you typically can't get a Digital tuner with HD and DVD (let alone DVD-DL) or even a HD Digital Tuner.

But DVI outputs are definately the way of the future... digital signals over the air, digital processing, digital storage, digital audio output encoding, digital video output encoding, to a digital input video display and digital decoder + amp.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by ianmcginley

What I want in the future is a dual HD digital tuner with DVI output (none of these analogue component outputs stuff) with 160+GB HD for time slip recording and programmed recording. Also DVD-DL (dual layer) for output to DVD's when I want

Shame you typically can't get a Digital tuner with HD and DVD (let alone DVD-DL) or even a HD Digital Tuner.

But DVI outputs are definately the way of the future... digital signals over the air, digital processing, digital storage, digital audio output encoding, digital video output encoding, to a digital input video display and digital decoder + amp.

It will happen, eventually, but it ill be HDMI, not DVI.

Rick.

[svo347]

So Rick... What would you personally recommend, Ill go for a SD STB but any ideas on what brand etc.
My TV is a Panasonic TC-80V70A
would there be any improvement do u think?
Thanx mate

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Sox

It will happen, eventually, but it ill be HDMI, not DVI.

See, thats my beef. I can get an HD TV PCI tuner card, AGP/PCIe with DVI out, software, DVD-DL, big disks, etc. All now. Hell for months really.

Why can't I get it in a STB these days?!

[Sox]

Originally Posted by svo347

So Rick... What would you personally recommend, Ill go for a SD STB but any ideas on what brand etc.
My TV is a Panasonic TC-80V70A
would there be any improvement do u think?
Thanx mate

Personally I would probably go for the Panasonic SD box. It's not as cheap as some of the no name brands, however you have a pretty decent display, and support for some of the cheaper stuff is questionable.

If you have good signal strength, performance will be similar, though still maybe slightly better.

If you have average signal strength, ghosting, etc, image quality will improve 100%.

Rick.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Sox

Personally I would probably go for the Panasonic SD box. It's not as cheap as some of the no name brands, however you have a pretty decent display, and support for some of the cheaper stuff is questionable.

Man and thats the other thing... why haven't some of the big names of technology jumped in with these STB's if they are going to be everywhere? Where is my Sony STB? Not one to be found on the shelf - they may exist, but not available.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by ianmcginley

See, thats my beef. I can get an HD TV PCI tuner card, AGP/PCIe with DVI out, software, DVD-DL, big disks, etc. All now. Hell for months really.

Why can't I get it in a STB these days?!

There are quite a few with DVI already you know.
LG, Humax, Strong, Teac, to name but a few.

Rick.

[parawolf]

Okay this is getting close! But where is the DVD-DL recorder? it would add $100 RRP to the pricing + some software development costs which would probably be easy to port across from something existing.

http://www.castel.com.au/Toshiba/Pro...ctCode=HDD-J35

[FoxMulder]

Why would you want Dual Layer recording at the moment, when you can get a DVD recorder, or even a set top box, with an 80+GB Hard Drive.

I know that the DL DVD media can hold twice the amount of data as the regular media, but it's 3-4x more expensive. Where's the logic in that? You'd be better off buying a spindle of DVD+/-Rs and using them to record the shows/programs you want to keep. (Which by the way is illegal).

As for the whole set top box thing. I bought one early last year, and the quality is a definate improvement. I had a fairly clear signal on my analogue TV, but as soon as I plugged the STB into the television, it was like moving from VHS to DVD. The signal was definately much clearer.

I bought an XMS STB, (the no-name from Strathfield), and there are no real problems with it. It's only SD, but I don't have a HDTV, so what's the point of getting HD. At the time it cost $290, but you could probably pick them up now for $120. Hell, JB are selling a SD box for $99. If all you are planning to do is watch television, then what would be the problem with it. (If you want the more advanced features that haven't really come out yet, then you can wait till the more expensive HD boxes come down to a reasonable price).

The next STB I plan on buying is one of the PVR types. With at least an 80GB hard drive, and definately twin tuners (whats the point of having recording abilities if all you can record is what you see).

Originally Posted by ianmcginley

Okay this is getting close! But where is the DVD-DL recorder? it would add $100 RRP to the pricing + some software development costs which would probably be easy to port across from something existing.

http://www.castel.com.au/Toshiba/Pr...uctCode=HDD-J35

Why not get the $600 Opentel PVR. It has twin tuners and an 80GB hard drive, as well as almost being 1/3rd the price. Most TVs don't have the HDMI interface, and unless your a perfectionist, recording on the highest bitrate of your DVD recorder, then the HDMI seems kind of redundant, just another gadget.

(I realise that it may become commonplace in the future, but not for a long time)

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by FoxMulder

Why would you want Dual Layer recording at the moment, when you can get a DVD recorder, or even a set top box, with an 80+GB Hard Drive.

I know that the DL DVD media can hold twice the amount of data as the regular media, but it's 3-4x more expensive. Where's the logic in that? You'd be better off buying a spindle of DVD+/-Rs and using them to record the shows/programs you want to keep. (Which by the way is illegal).

Why would I want a larger hard disk drive than 160GB? Because the recording/time slip of an HD show is 4 times the data of a SD show. Why get a DL burner built in? Future proofing. It is the most up to date tech on the market, but it isn't in these products yet.

Who cares if the media is expensive, so was DVD-RW, hell so were CD-Rs at one stage.

py:

Why not get the $600 Opentel PVR. It has twin tuners and an 80GB hard drive, as well as almost being 1/3rd the price. Most TVs don't have the HDMI interface, and unless your a perfectionist, recording on the highest bitrate of your DVD recorder, then the HDMI seems kind of redundant, just another gadget.

(I realise that it may become commonplace in the future, but not for a long time)

Why? I like the best stuff. I don't own a VCR, and when I buy a recording device I want it to be future proofed enough to last 10 years. Perhaps its not the way you do things but its the way I do things.

My other beef with this technology is price. An HD PCI tv tuner card is about $200, a mid range embedded PC with DVI out might be $300 (including hd) and then a DVD-DL is $100. Sure you then have to through Windows on it for $300 or whatever it is. But that is only $900. Why can't a fully embedded unit cost $1000? Why does this one STB have to cost $1600 and not even come with a DVD-DL?

i'm just annoyed that this segment of the market place seems to be held back and these 'no-names' are getting free run without much being said from the big boys up until now.

[Thunder Kiss]

Originally Posted by Sox

Personally I would probably go for the Panasonic SD box. It's not as cheap as some of the no name brands, however you have a pretty decent display, and support for some of the cheaper stuff is questionable.

If you have good signal strength, performance will be similar, though still maybe slightly better.

If you have average signal strength, ghosting, etc, image quality will improve 100%.

Rick.

The Panasonic box's remote will also operate the basic functions of your Panasonic TV, so there'll be no juggling of remote controls.

[Thunder Kiss]

Originally Posted by ianmcginley

Where is my Sony STB?

In any shop that sells Sony gear!

It's a fairly good box too.