VE driven!

McobraR · 02-08-2006, 09:52 PM

First review of the VE commodore.
Seems like the falcon still has the better 6 cylinder engine, 6 speed auto, and in some cases, suspension package. Other than that, the VE beats the bf in balance, body integrity and steering, varying from model to model

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...ate_DateTime|1

Wezza · 02-08-2006, 10:36 PM

Great reviews for the Commodore!! Sounds like it's a real drivers car. Can't wait to drive the SS-V.

OzJavelin · 03-08-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McobraR

the VE beats the bf in balance, body integrity and steering, varying from model to model

Steering eh? Not one of the Commodores strong points .. along with suspension finesse. I wonder if it steers better than an AU?

SunDrifter · 03-08-2006, 07:52 AM

Yeah, i'm a bit sceptical about the Steering issue as well. I hope its at least an improvement. But the 6 cylinder engine is no surprise. I6 > V6

Dr Smith · 03-08-2006, 08:02 AM

And we still don't have official kerb weights in any Holden brochures or website. Even though it's a different MD in charge maybe this link explains some of Holden's embarrasment..how does that saying go...."what goes around comes around":

(smh.com.au, 10/12/2003 by Toby Hagon)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...379788523.html

just a snip:

Holden boss wants Ford's gas guzzler outlawed
By Toby Hagon
December 10 2002

"Holden took a swipe at arch-rival Ford yesterday as it called for the Federal Government to force the development of more environmentally friendly cars.

The nation's biggest car maker said that any increase in fuel consumption - such as the minor one recently initiated by Ford with its heavily revised Falcon - was "inexcusable".

Speaking yesterday at a lunch to outline the company's busiest year of new product releases in its 54-year history, Holden's chairman and managing director, Peter Hanenberger, said the increasing demands of export markets should encourage Australian car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

"One thing that has concerned me about the fuel economy debate in this country has been the line that 'It's only a few extra dollars a week'," said Mr Hanenberger. "We are talking about a finite resource and deteriorating fuel economy performance is inexcusable.

"It becomes harder to protect Australia's environmental quality if some car makers take a 'few extra dollars a week' approach.

Holden has set its own internal goals for 2010 ahead of an imminent government move to impose strict economy guidelines, similar to those enforced upon United States car makers in the form of the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) regulations.

"The industry has proposed to the Federal Government that a national fuel consumption average of 6.8 litres per 100 kilometres could be achieved by 2010 if the right environment is in place," Mr Hanenberger said.

However, critics believe that Holden is clutching on to one of a handful of advantages its latest Commodore has over the vastly improved Ford Falcon. The BA Falcon has been widely praised as having made a huge leap forward to the point where it is now the benchmark in the fiercely-contested large car class.

But Holden still holds on to a fuel economy advantage at a time when the new Falcon uses more fuel than its predecessor due to a significantly heavier body. Ford's general manager of communications, Louise Teesdale, said the added weight in the Falcon was unfortunate, but necessary.

"We would have preferred not to inherit a small disadvantage in fuel economy, but that was partially a pay-off for the expensive additional safety equipment that was incorporated into this car," Ms Teesdale said.

Holden also announced plans for a $6 million research and development hub in Port Melbourne that will create more jobs and help cement the company's long-term plans as a global manufacturer of niche products.

Mr Hanenberger said the centre - dubbed Holden Innovation - would promote product innovation as well as innovation in safety, information technology and crash avoidance.

"These areas will extend Holden's planning capabilities well beyond generally applied horizons of five years," Mr Hanenberger said

SunDrifter · 03-08-2006, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

And we still don't official kerb weights in any Holden brochures or website. Even though it's a different MD in charge maybe this link explains some of Holden's embarasment..how does that saying go...."what goes around comes around":

(smh.com.au, 10/12/2003 by Toby Hagon)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...379788523.html

just a snip:

Holden boss wants Ford's gas guzzler outlawed
By Toby Hagon
December 10 2002

"Holden took a swipe at arch-rival Ford yesterday as it called for the Federal Government to force the development of more environmentally friendly cars.

The nation's biggest car maker said that any increase in fuel consumption - such as the minor one recently initiated by Ford with its heavily revised Falcon - was "inexcusable".

Speaking yesterday at a lunch to outline the company's busiest year of new product releases in its 54-year history, Holden's chairman and managing director, Peter Hanenberger, said the increasing demands of export markets should encourage Australian car manufacturers to improve efficiency.

"One thing that has concerned me about the fuel economy debate in this country has been the line that 'It's only a few extra dollars a week'," said Mr Hanenberger. "We are talking about a finite resource and deteriorating fuel economy performance is inexcusable.

"It becomes harder to protect Australia's environmental quality if some car makers take a 'few extra dollars a week' approach.
advertisement http://[img]http://campaigns.f2.com....x250[/img] advertisement

Holden has set its own internal goals for 2010 ahead of an imminent government move to impose strict economy guidelines, similar to those enforced upon United States car makers in the form of the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) regulations.

"The industry has proposed to the Federal Government that a national fuel consumption average of 6.8 litres per 100 kilometres could be achieved by 2010 if the right environment is in place," Mr Hanenberger said.

However, critics believe that Holden is clutching on to one of a handful of advantages its latest Commodore has over the vastly improved Ford Falcon. The BA Falcon has been widely praised as having made a huge leap forward to the point where it is now the benchmark in the fiercely-contested large car class.

But Holden still holds on to a fuel economy advantage at a time when the new Falcon uses more fuel than its predecessor due to a significantly heavier body. Ford's general manager of communications, Louise Teesdale, said the added weight in the Falcon was unfortunate, but necessary.

"We would have preferred not to inherit a small disadvantage in fuel economy, but that was partially a pay-off for the expensive additional safety equipment that was incorporated into this car," Ms Teesdale said.

Holden also announced plans for a $6 million research and development hub in Port Melbourne that will create more jobs and help cement the company's long-term plans as a global manufacturer of niche products.

Mr Hanenberger said the centre - dubbed Holden Innovation - would promote product innovation as well as innovation in safety, information technology and crash avoidance.

"These areas will extend Holden's planning capabilities well beyond generally applied horizons of five years," Mr Hanenberger said

A yes, i had forgotten about that. Holden probably wish Hanenberger hadn't said that now.

:

HLC · 03-08-2006, 08:09 AM

the SSV got a great review.

**Bluehoon** · 03-08-2006, 08:18 AM

Pretty white wash article.....

EA2BA · 03-08-2006, 08:20 AM

Reading the reviews on drive.com.au they are making some mighty big claims I think about the VE Commodore. "Best base model australian car" for the Omega. VE SS V - "It is undoubtedly Australia’s new muscle car King."

EA2BA · 03-08-2006, 08:25 AM

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=18818&vf=3

1690 – kerb weight of the Omega model in kilograms (old VZ Exec model: 1570kg)

1825 – kerb weight of the Calais V in kilograms

8.1 – time Holden says it takes the Omega to hit 100km/h from rest

5.4 – time Holden claims the SS-V auto can go from 0-100km/h

**Polyal** · 03-08-2006, 09:36 AM

well its going to be a bit ignorant of us to sit here and say it doesn't do what they say. It better do better than the BF as its a new generation anyway. Its just going to be VT vs EL for a while, atleast until BF2 comes out and then maybe we will be an EL2...lol

But to fair to the EL, it probably out performs VT's in most area's anyway.

:

Its going to be tough times, but interesting to see what ford does as I can never remember Holdens having better road poise, steering etc etc.

Also, I cant help but feel that the media is going to be extra nice to Holden. If they were to sh|t can it then thats not going to help large car sales, or either local manufacturer in the long run.

But we all know carsales.com.au and drive.com.au's integrity, so nothing to worry about hey...............

seano14 · 03-08-2006, 09:55 AM

all of them say "next generation". to me they sounds like advertisement, i'd rather a more in depth review in a mag

i guess the wait continues

charles_wif_xf · 03-08-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seano14

all of them say "next generation". to me they sounds like advertisement, i'd rather a more in depth review in a mag

i guess the wait continues

Me too; I tend to take the newspaper "journalists" word with an extremely small grain of salt. At least with the magazine journo's, they have 20W-50 coarsing through their veins and can actually write.

mcnews · 03-08-2006, 10:42 AM

Launch reports are always fantastic and gloss over any deficiencies. Take them as a crock or crapola. Wait for the proper back to back reviews where they have worked up the gumption to say what they really think and the wine and food has worn off from the launch party.

turboute · 03-08-2006, 11:05 AM

Hey the 380 was praised when that was released too... didn't count for much.

Good to see holden producing a decent vehicle, seems like they still need to figure out how to build an engine, but that will come in time (we can only hope...). Competition is good for us, the consumer, which means that now ford have to play leapfrog, and then holden again etc. It will keep us having great low priced cars on our road.

VSSII · 03-08-2006, 11:19 AM

I prefer the GM steering to that of the Ford, a little heavier but when at speed giving much more feel. GM had this problem back on their VS Commodores. Same for the suspension. The ford XR suspension is just too soft when pushing hard, with lots of wallowing and pitching. But the commodore brakes are just woeful!

Bermo · 03-08-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

By Toby Hagon
December 10 2002

:rofl: I think that article could be a bit out dated...?

Bucket · 03-08-2006, 03:01 PM

I signed up to the Holden VE Mailing list so i could get updates when they add some more info to the website...
This is so typical of Holden's "Bull5h!T baffles science" marketing

Quote:

originally posted by the 5hit spinners

See even more of the all new Holden Commodore

Hear from V8 Supercar drivers who should know - the new Commodore handles with a precision and agility more akin to a small sports car than a generous five-seater. Power the new Commodore through a bend, and you just know its 25-year domination of Australian motor sport is destined to continue to go on for another 25 - at least.

corbz · 03-08-2006, 03:07 PM

Just got this months motor...

performance times
(conducted on a WET track at lang lang between showers)

ssv auto
0-100: 5.69
400m: 13.9 @ 167.7km

ssv manual
0-100: 5.35
400m: 13.63 @170.7km

Teki04 · 03-08-2006, 03:13 PM

Spotted three of them on the back of a truck about 1 hour ago on the City West Link (Sydney). Anyone seen them?!

Bud Bud · 03-08-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corbz

Just got this months motor...

performance times
(conducted on a WET track at lang lang between showers)

ssv auto
0-100: 5.69
400m: 13.9 @ 167.7km

ssv manual
0-100: 5.35
400m: 13.63 @170.7km

I have to say guys, these are just the bread and butter Holden and those times are damn impressive, considering a wet track and extra weight. I now wonder what HSV is up to. Can they possibly crack a twelve straight out of the box?

Really interesting times ahead me thinks. Ford will at some point need a bigger cubed V8 (bring back the 351clevo) or put everything into the Turbo Six for the average Joe.

OzJavelin · 03-08-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSSII

I prefer the GM steering to that of the Ford, a little heavier but when at speed giving much more feel. GM had this problem back on their VS Commodores. Same for the suspension. The ford XR suspension is just too soft when pushing hard, with lots of wallowing and pitching. But the commodore brakes are just woeful!

Hopefully Holden have dropped their woeful FE2 "sports" suspension. My AU XL 1-tonne rides nicer and is more consistent in it's responses on rough roads. Holdens steering/suspension is great on a nice, flat road. The steering is strong self-centring and all is well .. until you hit a bump. Hopefully this is all gone in the VE .. Your preference for "more feel at speed" is just a perception. Ford steering (AUs at least) is very precise. It just doesn't need lumberjack arms to sway it from it's course.

BTW: I also own a VY SV8 with FE2 .. I have to put up with both "types" on steering/suspension almost every day.

Outbackjack · 03-08-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSSII

I prefer the GM steering to that of the Ford, a little heavier but when at speed giving much more feel. GM had this problem back on their VS Commodores. Same for the suspension. The ford XR suspension is just too soft when pushing hard, with lots of wallowing and pitching. But the commodore brakes are just woeful!

I have experience in both a BF XR8 and a 06 SS comodore at 200kph for extende periods, like a half hour cruise up the highway. The ford has a slight perception of wallowing at 180 to 200. The comodore starts to get twitch at about 150 and is uncomfortable at 200. It bumps off line on the slightest road inconsistancy. The XR absorbs road inconsistancies as feels much safer and controlable. But not many people spend alot of time at 200.

Cheers.

AnthonyQLD · 03-08-2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

I now wonder what HSV is up to. Can they possibly crack a twelve straight out of the box?

When will the HSV range be released is there a date yet?

XAGSV8 · 03-08-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bermo

:rofl: I think that article could be a bit out dated...?

It relates to what is happening now with Holdens fuel consumption figures rising.

Full Spectrum · 03-08-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSWXA

It relates to what is happening now with Holdens fuel consumption figures rising.

Actually 2 different test were done and they returned better fuel figures then holden claimed, I think it was drive going up hills highway travel etc they got 9-10.5l/100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnthonyQLD

When will the HSV range be released is there a date yet?

I think end of this month?.

Kryton · 03-08-2006, 06:08 PM

id like to see someone bought in from a different country that has never driven the BF or the VE and get them to review which one is better.
its really hard not to have some bias if your a car reviewer here in oz.

vztrt · 03-08-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

id like to see someone bought in from a different country that has never driven the BF or the VE and get them to review which one is better.
its really hard not to have some bias if your a car reviewer here in oz.

Top Gear Team??

Full Spectrum · 03-08-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

id like to see someone bought in from a different country that has never driven the BF or the VE and get them to review which one is better.
its really hard not to have some bias if your a car reviewer here in oz.

Actually i think at times they are over critical of both, Our reviews do seem to moan about little things more and sometimes your read it like WTF who cares.
Maybe that is why many go to the UK

Moan over there fit in perfect:P.

HSE2 · 03-08-2006, 07:59 PM

So the theory on the new Holdens being slower due to weight gain doesn't hold water???

What is our next line of excuse?