Danny'z Fez

JD2004 · 12-08-2006, 07:10 PM

Just finished a Mt Dandy run on my cruise route with danny and xurbanx..

Was good fun to have 3 x fez hooning through the hills..

Danny kept pretty much on my tail the whole way.. which made me jealous as hell.. the reason i couldnt go any harder was all about traction... one corner was very very close to loosing it completely... some fairly hard fishtailing... yep thats right in a fwd.... it felt like a rear brake lockup to me... ****it i knew i needed new brakes

...

Anyway the toyo proxies are a must... and some new rims are a definate... going to look at the tyres and rim next weekend hopefully to be fitted then aswell.

Also going to look into fitting a new filter http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=33-2883 Let me know if anyone has seen them around and what is peoples opinions on them??

Let me know your thoughts on the curcuit both Danny and Xurbanx.

Has anyone else had any issues with loss of rear traction with the standard tyres on it????

Luke

goop · 12-08-2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD2004

Has anyone else had any issues with loss of rear traction with the standard tyres on it????

Luke

Yeah, I've found it pretty surprising to have the tail step out a few times, not lock-ups, but lift-off or brake oversteer. Don't get me wrong, it's phrikken phun

, and not a hassle, as the fez lets you know so clearly what it's doing... but I think it could surprise less-experienced drivers.

edit: not that i think i'm a racecar driver... most of the time, hehe... but stay off the brake if it happens again, or brake with a little gas too. You're better off giving it a little to get the weight back over the rear, and then quietly understeering thru the corner.... providing you haven't completely overcooked it

Should help if you find yourself fishtailing.

JD2004 · 12-08-2006, 07:36 PM

ive had it loose traction on a small scale before but nothing this large... it came abit out of the blue.. it may have something to do with me taking a 35kmh corner at 95kmh with danny glued to my tail... i also snapped the brakes at the wrong moment

Im no racecar driver either... i dont take it nearly as hardcore as danny does... although with the new tyres id be pretty keen to challenge him again.. see if i can have them fitted before the 27th Aug!!!!

kiwijohn42 · 12-08-2006, 09:05 PM

Got the filter. Is good.

JD2004 · 12-08-2006, 09:12 PM

kiwijohn, what did u pay for the filter? and where abouts did u get it if you dont mind me asking?

kiwijohn42 · 12-08-2006, 09:17 PM

$65 at REPCO. I know a guy.

Teki04 · 12-08-2006, 09:34 PM

Brake into the corner, not in it. Then power out! The Fiesta was a very fun and predictable machine through the corners...

I guess it also comes down to experience - I do believe Danny has had the Fiesta for a longer period then you JD2004. And it does have a few mods too....

Sounds like you all had heaps of fun though!

Pieoter · 13-08-2006, 12:04 AM

If you are having trouble with rear traction try increasing its tyre pressure. Easy fix that can have a decent result.

xurbanx · 13-08-2006, 02:06 AM

Was awesome! A mini cruise (not exactly a cruise

) just before work.

Indeed, Danny kept right on Luke's tail the whole way, and me about a long long way behind (: It's a great circuit, and since I'm quitting work tomorrow I'll be there on the 27th, might also bring a friend along so I'll need to keep it slow. Though there'll possibly be alot more cars on that Sunday, what made me scary and hard was turning into a corner at about 20km past the limit and having another car on the other lane coming towards you.

But overall, it's a nice circuit, with a nice reward at the end. Just how many people coming on Sunday will be going all out?

Danny · 13-08-2006, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD2004

ive had it loose traction on a small scale before but nothing this large... it came abit out of the blue.. it may have something to do with me taking a 35kmh corner at 95kmh with danny glued to my tail... i also snapped the brakes at the wrong moment

Im no racecar driver either... i dont take it nearly as hardcore as danny does... although with the new tyres id be pretty keen to challenge him again.. see if i can have them fitted before the 27th Aug!!!!

Guys, Just to let you know here that the portion of road where this happened was a 90km/h Limit with a 35km/h Reccomendation.

The Fiesta's really do do well around the corners, But what I beleive saved you there and prevented you swapping ends was the EBD. The computer realises that there is too much Brake Bias on the front wheels, causing a near terminal shift of weight to the front of the car. The EBD instantly takes some of the bias off the fronts and then applies it to the rear, thus counterbalancing the weight shift effect and making it harder to spin on its end.

It's characterised by the **** poking up into the air at first brake application, and then a settling of the rear once the brakes are distributed. Matt was the one who taught me about that, and It was good to see it at work!

I've seen it happen on not only your car, but on Adam (FocusOnThis)'s car as well. Good drive was had. Fantastic curcuit, and good to meet/see you guys again! Hopefully the Cruise will be a goer.

JD2004 · 13-08-2006, 07:16 AM

The speed limit on these roads is fairly high and recomendations are pretty low, which means that your not breaking the law by having a good time (except wreckless driving of course).

I hope everyone can make the 27th as it will be awesome to get some more cars out.. the scenery if pretty good.. its pretty much rainforest most of the way. (Lysterfield road is more green fields) so its a mix of nice views and awesome roads.

I still think dannys car could have gone harder than mine through most corners, as i was only just on traction through most and his car seemed to be sticking to the road like ............ so my conclusion is he has a mean machine!!

JD2004 · 13-08-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xurbanx

what made me scary and hard was turning into a corner at about 20km past the limit and having another car on the other lane coming towards you.

What made you scary and hard? well i suppose i like driving but its never given me that kind of a feeling before... truely unique

Also keeping in your own lane makes it even more of a challenge.. i tried very hard to keep inside my lane.. except for a few corners where it was completely visable ahead....

JD2004 · 13-08-2006, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwijohn42

$65 at REPCO. I know a guy.

You wouldnt happen to know another guy in Vic would you??

excellent price for a superb filter.. il try and haggle with repco over here and see if they can give me a good price.

You dont happen to know off head what the RRP is?

Thanks a million.

Luke

Teki04 · 13-08-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pieoter

If you are having trouble with rear traction try increasing its tyre pressure. Easy fix that can have a decent result.

As long as the pressure isn't greater then that at the front - otherwise you will increase lift-off oversteer.

kiwijohn42 · 13-08-2006, 10:12 AM

I think RRP is about &80ish, but don't quote me. BMC do one as well which is supposed to be good. I think Autobarn stock them.

goop · 13-08-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

The Fiesta's really do do well around the corners, But what I beleive saved you there and prevented you swapping ends was the EBD. The computer realises that there is too much Brake Bias on the front wheels, causing a near terminal shift of weight to the front of the car. The EBD instantly takes some of the bias off the fronts and then applies it to the rear, thus counterbalancing the weight shift effect and making it harder to spin on its end.

It's characterised by the **** poking up into the air at first brake application, and then a settling of the rear once the brakes are distributed. Matt was the one who taught me about that, and It was good to see it at work!

Not sure that's quite right, Danny. If it were to place more bias towards the rear, with effectively unloaded wheels, it would make matters worse.

I think you'll find EBD redistributes braking force so that each wheel can brake at it's limit. Not sure if it's solely front/rear on the Fez, or LHS/RHS as well.

ESC/DSC is more about changing the balance of the car, but we don't want that electro-nanny in the Fiesta

Wiki entries: EBD ; ESC

xurbanx · 13-08-2006, 10:33 AM

Hahaha, that was a typo. Just got back from work and was tired (:

Meant to say the course was scary and hard.

Danny · 13-08-2006, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goop

Not sure that's quite right, Danny. If it were to place more bias towards the rear, with effectively unloaded wheels, it would make matters worse.

I think you'll find EBD redistributes braking force so that each wheel can brake at it's limit. Not sure if it's solely front/rear on the Fez, or LHS/RHS as well.

ESC/DSC is more about changing the balance of the car, but we don't want that electro-nanny in the Fiesta

Wiki entries: EBD ; ESC

No No, It lets each wheel brake to its limit. It does distribute the brake bias from front to back if need be, but obviously not to the point of rear wheel lockup. These systems are smarter than that!

Thats what I meant anyways..

15-08-2006, 08:10 PM

are there any of these cuises in brissy/coast???

zetec · 15-08-2006, 08:26 PM

Just to clear up EBD guys, it works exactly like when you brake a Mountain Bike with front and rear brakes. When stopping, you don't hit the rears as hard instantly, however when you wipe off some speed you can give the rears a little more squeeze. Stops the rear from locking up instantly when there's no weight over it.

Same works in a car. I learnt it (hence Danny's description) pulling up from a ridiculous speed over 100km/h to miss a roundabout in an 80 zone that suddenly appeared closer than I thought... needless to say the rear end lifted almost clean off the tarmac as the fronts gripped (down a hill too which made it worse). I felt the back end get really really light then almost instantly settle back down again and the car braked straight and true. ABS stopped the lock up, but EBD in that instant would have dialled far more braking to the fronts when it realised there was almost no weight over the rears, then when I had wiped off some speed I was settled on all four wheels and continued braking solidly, sending more braking back to the rears again to stop the fronts from locking up as their weight lightened as the nose lifted from the initial shock. As much as a car has ABS, EBD still works to prevent the ABS being needed as early because a car under hard ABS stop will actually pull up in a longer distance than one at maximum braking threshold before ABS kicks in.

I've also got Stability and Traction control on my Zetec, which goes a step further and detects if the car is understeering or oversteering (measures 20 times per second constantly!) using ABS sensors, a steering column angle sensor and a lateral-G-force (yaw) sensor under the passenger seat. If the car is oversteering, it applies maximum braking force to the wheel on the front outside corner to create drag and push the tail back in. For understeer, it brakes in the inside rear wheel to pull the nose back in by again creating drag. It combines this with cutting the power at appropriate levels to allow you to go around a corner even if you happen to be at full throttle when the slide develops. The car gradually allows power back until it senses that the full grip levels have returned, which may take a millisecond or a couple of seconds. It's a great system, allows you to have a little fun without cutting out everything and has saved my life at least once guaranteed so far, so well worth it.

goop · 16-08-2006, 08:42 AM

Danny's explanation, at least to me, made it seem that under heavy braking, more bias would be sent to the rear - which could spin the car. Like you say, it actually does the reverse; it sends more bias frontwards.

Norm999, I'll be doing Mt Glorious over the next few days if you wanna hook up mate.

nnng_oozie · 16-08-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD2004

Has anyone else had any issues with loss of rear traction with the standard tyres on it????

I've got a mad story.

Took the fez to the track a while ago with the standard tyres, i was pushing hard enough to need some brake-oversteer. On one of my laps i pushed too far and swung the tail out just enough so the rear tyres went onto the ripple strip, obviously i was trying to recover.....

Ever seen a Fiesta Drift???

JD2004 · 16-08-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnng_oozie

I've got a mad story.

Took the fez to the track a while ago with the standard tyres, i was pushing hard enough to need some brake-oversteer. On one of my laps i pushed too far and swung the tail out just enough so the rear tyres went onto the ripple strip, obviously i was trying to recover.....

Ever seen a Fiesta Drift???

Thats pretty much the feeling.. i had it happen once when i did a U turn too fast.. after wards i thought... did i just.............nah its a FWD.

17-08-2006, 09:00 PM

Where's Mt Glorious?? I'm only in Gold Coast til Monday week...

TheColonel · 17-08-2006, 11:40 PM

If i wasn't heading down to Bulahdelah for a rally i woulda been keen for a Mt Glorious run this weekend :(

goop · 19-08-2006, 02:32 PM

eh, I'm back... and it was, well... Glorious!

Had my girlfriend in the car, so I took it pretty easy, but those downhill hairpins (signed at 20kph/30kph), man, what a rollercoaster!

Mount Glorious is in the Sunshine Coast Hinterland, probably an hour or two NW of Brissy. We stopped for a night at Melany at this B&B, big fireplace, a spa with a friggen fishtank above it, bacon and eggs for brekky... did the touristy thing in Montville, and we ended up last night in Kalangur... was gonna spend another night but ran out of money

Had a really good time

Scareybear · 19-08-2006, 02:37 PM

I'm thinking we may need to organise a brisbane cruise up there at some stage.

goop · 19-08-2006, 03:03 PM

sounds good, I'm actually in Bundy, but I'm up for it every other week

Pics of trip