Diesel - why aren't there more?

[T3rminator]

Hey guys. I recently traded in the BOSS 260 ute for a Hilux Dual Cab SR 4x4 with a 3L Turbo Diesel. The Hilux isn't actually mine, its my dads but I get to drive it until I head off overseas next year.

I have only had it for a couple of days and I must say I am very impressed with how the 3L 4cylinder turbo carries the hilux, which I think is around 1850kgs. The torque peaks at 1400RPM and it feels like you can almost take off without using the accelerator, although havent tested this yet. : I must admit the available torque at low revs and throttle response with the cable system is very refreshing from the BOSS.

Anyways, I'm curious as to why there aren't more diesel engine driven cars around. They produce peak torque at almost idling RPMs. Fuel efficiency is much better than unleaded cars. And I'm sure with the right mods and development the mid and top range could be improved to match your unleadeds. So why haven't we seen turbo/supercharged diesel V8s in our falcons or commodores yet?

[BeStRaFe]

the only reason im not driving a 1.9 TDI VW Polo is because i just dont like the sound...

[MITCHAY]

Turbo and diesel :sm_headba

As to why there is not many around, could it have something to do with emissions? I really have no idea.

I know a certain Jap car company are working on a turbo diesel for their cars.

[Rob]

When I worked at Chrysler, I had a few Commander CRD Jeeps to drive, I tell ya what.. 3.0 V6 160kw and 510nm, and they sounded COOL at like 4500rpm :

Turbo Diesel 5.0 litre V8 + Aussie sedan = :evilking:

[csv8]

The main reason diesels aren't popular here is the fuel tax. Diesel costs less than petrol to make, but costs more !!!!!! Then servo's aren't equipped for diesel cars only trucks. VW, MB and BMW are trying to get servo forecourts more diesel friendly for cars. You want power ?? VW Toureg has a V10 diesel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When Ford releases the diesel Territory and Holden the diesel Commodore next year. Things might change.

[T3rminator]

Only thing i can think of is that diesels engines are more expensive to make.
From memory the same hilux with a 4L V6 is about $2k cheaper.

How about the 7.3L F250 engine in a BOSS? out:

[Outbackjack]

One of the reasons that diesels are stil not the norm is cost. As soon as you drop a deisel into a car the cost increases. And if something goes wrong with it be prepared to take a mortgage on your house to cover the cost of parts.

EG. Nissan Patrol Gu3 3.0 litre deisel.

Clutch around 3K
Injector pump 3K plus
Cylinder head 4K

They are parts cost only. Add labor onto that.

[bEAn86]

also, some make visable smoke out of the zorst
-sluggish
-slower
-lack of performace when compared to all the petrol options, eg xr6t, xr8, ss ect
-they sound like a truck
-shake when they idel
- and i cant see a diesels having more performace then say an Xr6t ect.
- Also if u look at the used market, say 1995 era i cant think of any diesels with more bang for your buck then a falcon/commodore.
-and they cause acid rain, or so i have heard.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by csv8

You want power ?? VW Toureg has a V10 diesel !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ummmmmmmmm YES!

5.0 V10 TDI

The V10 TDI has redefined what a diesel engine can achieve, which is not surprising from a twin-turbo V10 that develops 230kW of

power. An incredible 750Nm of torque is available at just 2000rpm.

Fromstandstill, 100km/h will be reached in a mere 7.8 seconds and where

the law permits, a top speed of 225 km/h. Even with such performance,

fuel consumption is only 12.8L/100kms*.

Thats 7.8sec carrying a 2.5tonne 4x4!

Price is a bit crazy though.

[XR_Strider_GuY]

Perhaps for a Falcon XT to have a diesel option, be good to get the reps into diesels and then the XR prices will hold decent value.

A Diesel Territory is viable too and ideal for the heavy weight.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by fullthrottle

. The torque peaks at 1400RPM and it feels like you can almost take off without using the accelerator, although havent tested this yet. :

Just take your foot slowly off the clutch and let the car roll away and it will just keep on idling down the road,quite a funny feeling the first time you do it.When I used to do hay carting that is how the truck was driven around the paddocks.

[XRated]

I recently spent some time in a Merc M??? Diesel 4WD. The pulling force once rolling is nuts! They can really move when they want.

It was kind of bland compared to the ride in the Porsche Cayenne after :Up_to_som

[XR_Strider_GuY]

I drove a turbo diesel Golf, yes it has massive torque, it throws you back in your seat but I do not like the power band.

You put your foot down and its dead for a second or two (to the point of being scary when going around the roundabout). Then when turbo's kick in it pulls hard, you really feel the pull and the G's are felt so much so that the Golf felt stronger than my XR6 HP. But then at 4000-4500 it drops off soooo sharply and then your into the next gear and process starts all over again. It feels tiresome to drive (perhaps I need to get use to it).

[bEAn86]

and an xr6t would eat that truck alive

[Green X]

Good Question.

Fuel prices have never relly warrented thae devolpment of a diesal engines in Australia untill now.

Diesel engines are generally heaver as they run Higher Compression ratios as well as combustion pressures and fuel pressures and more expensive to build, Diesel fuel has a higher BTU than petrol too and is better for the environment.

When something goes wrong in a diesel it will cost you, as they are not something any Local mechanic can sort out and a dealer is probably worse LOL.

The Nissan 3Ltr really isn’t a good example as that was a bad engine and had many problems Re Holing Pistons upto the series 3 (a lot of Opinions as to why but nobody really knows the cause). But take the Nissan 4.2T/D for example this engine will do 300,000+K’s with nothing but basic servicing.

New stile diesels (Common rail, Direct injection) Vs old stile (Indirect injection) there is no comparison Most of you are probably thinking of Old stile diesels the new ones are impressive, have you heard the roomers of the new Toyota Turbo diesel 200+ KW and 600NM+ of toque I believe and all this would be available below 3000RPM more than Likely.

As for the noise well I Kind of like it nothing like it a ID V8 Chevy diesel at idle, and the new Common rail DI diesels are quite as

Australian diesel up until recently was of very poor quality 5000PPM Sulphur it’s now down to 500 or 50 can’t remember.

Most diesels were never meant to be a Pro-Formance engine they were built for lugging a load and they will do this all day long and return good fuel economy doing it compared to petrol.

You can build a diesel to be quick.

Have seen a Video of a F250 Running a 12-13 second ¼ Mile so there goes the Slow argument and it would probably return a consumption figure of 15-17 per 100 that’s from 2+ ton of truck with the aerodynamics of a brick with a 7.2 litre engine that isn’t exactly high tech now a days.

[Auslandau]

I've had a couple of diesels.....all 4X4. sluggish, even the turbo, expensive if the slightest goes wrong, smelly, lots of torque, good fuel milage, lMore frequent services, car more expensive to buy, diesel more expensive to buy, in the end couldnt see the advantage at all. Back to normal and wouldnt go back. Hated going somewhere all dressed to the nigh and then filling up with diesel! Especially the more common truck stops.



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[Green X]

"and an xr6t would eat that truck alive", no doubt

Build a new stile 4Ltre Turbo, Twin OHC 24Valve VCT Diesel and see what that goes like.

You can’t compare a Petrol and diesel engine, as they are very different.

I was talking to a Guy with a 6.5 Chevy Diesel in his patrol only uses 3 gears 2nd 4th and 5th . Doesn’t bother changing down gears to go throe a round about’s anymore Just leaves it in 5th and it pulls back up to speed no worries, chuck a trailer on the Back and reckons he has to keep looking to see if it’s still there, out in the bush 4WDing it Just idles throe most stuff. Put the foot down and it moves. This is a old stile Inderect Injection Naturally aspirated Diesel from the erly 90's. it returns around 14 per Lts per 100.



yeah BOY!!

[uranium_death]

One of my lady friends...38 years of age has a VN Station Wagon and a Diesel Hilux. She loves the Hilux but said that at times she really appreciates the VN because she can just put the foot down and feet her body push back into in the seat.

She said the Hilux just takes off so slow. Otherwise, she loves the Diesel.

Another friend of mine has an '87 Pajero and the number of times they've been dobbed in for "being untuned" is ridiculous. The Diesels aren't as clean with emissions (visibly anyway) and in the case of my mate, it can cause problems.

[OzJavelin]

It might be different now with better quality grades of diesel, but I thought that diesel emissions were photoreactive - moreso than anything which petrol engines produce? In a VERY sunny environment like Australia this is bad news. If *EVERYONE* drove diesels we'd have a far worse pollution problem than we already do???

[Polyal]

I remember years ago my mate had a 506 (I think) Pug for his first car, on diesel, he would always complain that the diesel would come flying out as they are set up for trucks.

A diesel small car makes alot of sense, makes city driving a bit easier.

[Mechan1k]

One of my colleagues at work has a Golf 2L TDI 6-sp manual.
What a fun car to drive indeed ... and the economy is awesome too ... and so is the torque as well.

Fairly quiet though for a diesel ... and it is clean (have followed him when he has booted it ... no fumes ... no smoke) ... mind you ... I had no chance in catching him either.

New technology diesel vehicles have come in leaps and bounds over thet last few years. They are so much more efficient than anything from Ford or Holden at the moment.

Show me a petrol vehicle from Ford or Holden that can travel over 1000km from 55L of fuel without topping up. And do it in the luxury of the Golf as well. There isn't such a vehicle.

The Toureg is an awesome machine as well ... and a hell of a lot of torque to boot. I wouldn't mind owning one.

[Mechan1k]

The problem with most pumps is that they are highflow truck pumps .. most new TD vehicles now run narrower spouts and do not fit the high-flow pump nozzles at all ... on the main servo aprons the combined pumps that have diesel next to the ULP pumps aren't high-flow anyway.

Would be cool if they were high-flow compatible ... you'd have it filled in 20 seconds ... LOL

[Tles]

The same donk has made it into the new Prado update - Carpoint and sounds good. Maybe this would make the Ranger 3.0 CRTD would sound more likely for Territory. Falcon, Fairmont and Fairlane Ghia too please. Listen to Richard Parry Jones Ford and lead the way.

As one of the last comments said Diesel has only just been made quality enough to support the latest gen of diesel engines. Mazda 2.0MZR is a beauty with 6spd manual and 5.8l/100k average.

a new Euro IV-compliant turbodiesel engine. Derived from the excellent unit used in the latest HiLux, the 3.0-litre common-rail four-cylinder direct-injection engine delivers 32 per cent more power and 19.5 per cent more torque than the similar-capacity engine it replaces.

Maximum power is now 127kW at 3400rpm (up from 96kW at 3600rpm) while peak torque jumps to 410Nm at 1600-2800rpm (up from 343Nm at 2000rpm).

In concert with the new engine, new transmissions are available in the Prado each gaining an extra ratio over the outgoing model -- a six-speed manual and an electronically-controlled five-speed automatic with gated shift.

Toyota claims the new turbodiesel powertrain offers substantially improved response, smoother acceleration, better fuel economy and lower emissions. Consumption for both manual and auto turbodiesel versions has also been lowered to less than 10lt/100km -- an improvement of 19.3 per cent for the manual and 26.2 per cent for the auto according to the maker.

The updated six-speed manual turbodiesel Prado uses 9.2lt/100km (down 2.2lt/100km) while the auto registers 9.3lt/100km (down 3.3) in ADR81.00 tests.

Petrol engine and transmission combinations are essentially unchanged. The variable valve timing (VVT-i) equipped 4.0-litre V6 engine delivers maximum power of 179kW at 5200rpm and peak torque is 376Nm at 3800rpm.

BTW - Nice ute - what I wanted the work ute to be. Got SR 4x2 Xcab with 4.0V6 instead and it's a great donk too. Lot's of power and pull.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by bEAn86

also, some make visable smoke out of the zorst
-sluggish
-slower
-lack of performace when compared to all the petrol options, eg xr6t, xr8, ss ect
-they sound like a truck
-shake when they idel
- and i cant see a diesels having more performace then say an Xr6t ect.
- Also if u look at the used market, say 1995 era i cant think of any diesels with more bang for your buck then a falcon/commodore.
-and they cause acid rain, or so i have heard.

Your referring to Diesel engines of the last century.
2006 Le Mans winner was a diesel powered Audi R10. The R10's powerplant is a turbocharged 5.5-liter four-cam V12 engine that makes more than 650 horsepower and 840 lb-ft of torque—enough to give it a top speed of more than 200 mph. Peugot and other manafucturers are entering diesel car's next year.
Diesels are bullet proof! I know of a guy with 450,000kms on an old L/cruiser that he's only every changed the oil and filters and it still runs perfect.

[Quicklier]

Originally Posted by bEAn86

also, some make visable smoke out of the zorst
-sluggish
-slower
-lack of performace when compared to all the petrol options, eg xr6t, xr8, ss ect
-they sound like a truck
-shake when they idel
- and i cant see a diesels having more performace then say an Xr6t ect.
- Also if u look at the used market, say 1995 era i cant think of any diesels with more bang for your buck then a falcon/commodore.
-and they cause acid rain, or so i have heard.

Are you talking about a diesel Merc from the early 80's or a modern common rail diesel?

Ford, please listen.
I'd like a Focus wagon in Zetec S TDCI specifications. Please supply in manual in just about any available colour.

[sgt_doofey]

Having recently purchased a 2.0L Turbo Diesel Peugeot 307, I'm loving it. Yes there is a bit of a lag for the turbo to spool up when you put you foot down, but once it's up to speed, your off!
If there was an option of a Turbo Diesel Falcon, then I would probably get that over the ULP one. The savings in fuel costs alone is fantastic.
My EL is getting 12-13L/100km on LPG. The Peugeot is averaging about 5.5-6L/100kms, and that even with a bit of spirited driving every now and then!

I believe that the quality of the diesel fuel in the past has prevented the European manufacturer from bringing in diesel cars as the diesel wasn't clean enough for their engines. That has now changed and we are starting to see more and more diesel coming out.

Bring in the diesel Focus please! 6sp TDCi.

Reason why there weren't many diesel passenger cars until recently is because of sulpher content in local diesel was too high for high tech euro diesels. Legislation changed that in 2002 but because of product cycles etc its only coming available here now.

[chevypower]

and we can now buy B100 100% Biodiesel from SAFF fuel stations (there are 3 in VIctoria so far) http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/
I filled up my car with bio-unleaded last night

[Mechan1k]

Some Bio-diesel mixes are causing some major problems with some vehicles. Have seen a few newer diesel vehicle in with rough running issues (due to the mix having too much canola in it comapred to diesel).

[Green X]

Bio-diesel will void warranty with most manufactures, but it is actually a better grade of diesel and burns cleaner, the Original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil I believe not this Refined Crude Oil crap LOL.

The problems you might be referring to is clogging of fuel filters, this is because the bio diesel cleans out the fuel system and thus clogs the filters, it suggested to change the fuel filters after a few 100K’s after switching over to bio-diesel