Is Epica the next big thing

[bathurst77]

Holden are to release a 2.5 litre inline-6 5 seater sedan range, that looks sorta like a mini Commodore at a sub $30,000 price.

With big cars on the decline could a new mid size smaller 6 meet camry head on and finally kill 380? How many sales will it steal from Commy and Falcon?
What has ford got to head it off? Mondeo could be much more expensive limited volume "niche" car.

There's no doubt people are looking for cheaper more economical cars then falc/commy thses days, and a smaller, cheaper but still "6 cylinder HOLDEN" (according to the badge) will appeal to mums n dads and fleets.

If for about $30,000 drive away, you can get a roomy(-ish) 6 cyl auto "Holden" with all the niceties (criuse, air, cd, airbags, fast glass, abs, traction etc) and with Holdens dealer network and advertising clout, look out. Add a few stripes, mags and spoilers, and its a "sports 6". Torana anyone?

So what if its FWD and korean, most people DONT care. Remember 90% of car buyers are NOT enthusiasts, the just want nice comfortable trustworthy economical transport. Who cares if its FWD, RWD or somewheel drive, they dont care if 0-100 takes 6 or 11 seconds. So long as it keeps up in traffic and can cruise on freeway at 110, who needs more? They DO care about looks, room, comfort and cost, and the name Holden reassures them.

If they can get them here in numbers, the BIG 6 sedans could really be in trouble. This could indeed be an Epic-car.

http://www.fullboost.com.au/popNews2...i=3&n=5&y=2007

http://www.fullboost.com.au/popNews2...i=2&n=5&y=2007

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...-epica-new.htm

http://www.autoguide.com.au/news.asp?news_id=3203

http://glassguide.goauto.com.au/mell...25727300813B1C

[Smoke Pursuit]

It will do well to start with, but QUALITY issues are going to be a problem, just like the Captiva, the daewoo build quality is starting to shine thru.

[Polyal]

jeez do you get commission?

I think there is demand for a good medium car, but there are already plenty out there. Again, someone who is buying a falcon or commy wants a bigger car for whatever reason, but there are some that have come to the realisation that they dont really need a large car.

[pauljh74]

With the Mazda 6 and Accord right on or under the $30k mark, I don't see the Epica being a huge hit.

[T3ts50]

Very plain looking. New Mondeo looks alot better IMO. But the Holden is also competing against a very good looking Mazda 6 which are around the same price and continiuing to sell well. I think it will be very challenging for Holden to sell this here but it seems the price might be an advantage.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Polyal

jeez do you get commission?

I think there is demand for a good medium car, but there are already plenty out there. Again, someone who is buying a falcon or commy wants a bigger car for whatever reason, but there are some that have come to the realisation that they dont really need a large car.

I agree. I have a falcon ute because I need a ute. My wife wants a smaller car and when the time comes we will probably look at a focus.
As far as I'm concerned Camry and Magna are in the same class as falcon and commodore. So really, I don't see what class this would fit into? We already have a massive range of options to choose from, why complicate things more with all these in between cars.

VOLUME is what makes profit. I think part of the problem with car manufacturers today is they offer too many different vehicles that really aren't that different from each other.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by pb02

I agree. I have a falcon ute because I need a ute. My wife wants a smaller car and when the time comes we will probably look at a focus.
As far as I'm concerned Camry and Magna are in the same class as falcon and commodore. So really, I don't see what class this would fit into? We already have a massive range of options to choose from, why complicate things more with all these in between cars.

VOLUME is what makes profit. I think part of the problem with car manufacturers today is they offer too many different vehicles that really aren't that different from each other.

And thats the really bad thing about the whole globalisation issue.

I was reading an article that said that the new Mondeo ST will run the same engine as the XR5 (T5). Currently it has a V6 that is fantastic, why would they use the T5.

Its going to get to a point were global companies will use similar engines all over the world. It makes business sense, but for the people that enjoy their driving all the cars are slowly going to be the same.

Case1 - C1 platform, S40, Focus and Mazda 3 are all good cars, but this is only early in the platform sharing stage and look at the common parts, heaps! You would think that its only going to get worse.

Thats why I am a fan of Porsche, truly one of the last companies to have individual DNA, and even then Im sure some parts are sourced from other companies.

Its a shame.

[FPVTurboTaxi]

i have a mate that is in service for holden ... we always have good banter going between us Ford v Holden but he is apauled with the quality of these rebadges that he is servicing and doing waranty repairs from both asia and euro ... here comes anudder one to add to the list

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats why I am a fan of Porsche, truly one of the last companies to have individual DNA, and even then Im sure some parts are sourced from other companies.

Its a shame.

I've always been a huge porsche fan, this is one of many reasons why. The last figures I read about porsche claim they are doing very very well financially.. Makes you wonder why other manufacturers don't do the same??

[needaXYGT]

looks like something toyota would build.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by pb02

I've always been a huge porsche fan, this is one of many reasons why. The last figures I read about porsche claim they are doing very very well financially.. Makes you wonder why other manufacturers don't do the same??

My guess would be that other manufacturers dont have the badge to back them up. I mean look at the cayenne, not the prettiest thing, but it still sells.

[ltd]

Poo. Give me mazda 6 or honda any day. Not really a car that will sell well unless it comes to market for around 23K. Even then, Hyundai and KIA have alternatives that are, well, better. I think in that price bracket alot of people would go the Holden over the KIA, but you also have to remember that 23K buys alot of Hyundai; which are rapidly building a solid reputation.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by needaXYGT

looks like something toyota would build.

And toyota dont sell many do they?

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by needaXYGT

looks like something toyota would build.

Nah ... it's much worse than what Toyota would build.

[ivorya]

Go the Daewoo!!!!!!!
I'd look at mazda, subaru, toyota and ford's new mondeo before buying a push bike over these cheap and nasty rebagded daewoo's. I guess, it's a good idea from GMH, at least potentially they'll make more $$$ per vehicle then those sourced from europe. I see ford doing something similar in the future with the aussie team designing and tuning vehicles for the asin market.

[XRchic]

Put a C on the end of its name and you have Epicac syrup - used as a medical way of making people vomit.

:

edit: I think it is Ipecac syrup actually, but you get the point...

[DA68ZA]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

It will do well to start with, but QUALITY issues are going to be a problem, just like the Captiva, the daewoo build quality is starting to shine thru.

man u are spot on.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Polyal

And thats the really bad thing about the whole globalisation issue.

I was reading an article that said that the new Mondeo ST will run the same engine as the XR5 (T5). Currently it has a V6 that is fantastic, why would they use the T5.

Its going to get to a point were global companies will use similar engines all over the world. It makes business sense, but for the people that enjoy their driving all the cars are slowly going to be the same.

Case1 - C1 platform, S40, Focus and Mazda 3 are all good cars, but this is only early in the platform sharing stage and look at the common parts, heaps! You would think that its only going to get worse.

Thats why I am a fan of Porsche, truly one of the last companies to have individual DNA, and even then Im sure some parts are sourced from other companies.

Its a shame.

But isnt Porsches DNA originally VW beetle anyway?

[loxxr6]

Originally Posted by XRchic

Put a C on the end of its name and you have Epicac syrup - used as a medical way of making people vomit.

:

edit: I think it is Ipecac syrup actually, but you get the point...

lol

Either way it's an ugly car.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by MethodX

But isnt Porsches DNA originally VW beetle anyway?

Perhaps a very, very long time ago.

[Gobes32]

At 25k for a small sedan watch out for the bogan rush where shazza buys a holden so she can be like her boyfriend, bazza.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by acosta32

At 25k for a small sedan watch out for the bogan rush where shazza buys a holden so she can be like her boyfriend, bazza.

BWHAHAHAHHAHA...Gold! :

[Bossxr8]

It doesn't matter that they are 6 cylinders because they are **** weak. Most 4's make more power than Daewoos 6's do. They would have been better just using a 4.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It doesn't matter that they are 6 cylinders because they are **** weak. Most 4's make more power than Daewoos 6's do. They would have been better just using a 4.

Thats my point. IT IS A SIX. sure its a pitiful 6, but most "bogons" who buy holden hyundai kia corollas camrys etc dont care. The ads tell them they can have a six cylinder holden for 25K.

Its not about how good or crap the car is, its about holden selling a six, and holden marketing, and yuor average "bogons" love of holden.

Most buyers dont care about kw or nm or 0-100. tehy do care about price, economy, cd and aircond, and dealer backup. IF they can land them in big numbers they will sell, but i reckon commodore will suffer, cementing corolla to 1st place in sales tree.

[DJR MAN]

It shouldn't happen, and they should have learnt their lesson when they stopped making the small bodied VB-VL commodes, and went to full size VN - to todays VE.
Most Australians want cars the size of Falcons and Commodes as we know them today.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

and the name Holden reassures them.

Proof. People (in general) are stupid.

Sticking a new badge on a dodgy car, does not quality make.

My brother has the pleasure of driving a Daewoo, I found out about all the quality while installing an audio system - I've never lost so much blood or swore or broke as many drill bits, working on a car.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

Most Australians want cars the size of Falcons and Commodes as we know them today.

Then why are sales on the slide and sales of small cars on the boom.
Look at the trend over the last 5 years or so, BIg cars Falc/commy used to be about 50% of all new cars sold. Now its about 30...
Which means 70 % (MOST) australians do NOT want want cars the size of Falcons and Commodes as we know them today

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Which means 70 % (MOST) australians do NOT want want cars the size of Falcons and Commodes as we know them today

True, but this happens every time fuel goes up by a considerable margin. In 2 - 3 years the large car segment will pick up as people get used to petrol being around $1.20 - $1.40 a litre.

[BlueRaven]

I heard that the market shift had a lot to do with a change in Australian buyers opinions on things, influenced by the economy and fuel prices, amongst other things. Once upon a time the general idea was to buy one car for all purposes, which is basically what our large sedans are trying to cater for. Obviously they are limited by physics, so there are applications that other types of care a best suited for.

Apparently the Australian buyer now is buying cars for specific purposes. Smaller cars for city driving for instance... which translates into multiple car families.

[XRchic]

One of the car mag journos described the phenomenon once: Marketing over substance.

Holden get the full 10 points for their marketing over the years...