Car cleaning.

[robbyj]

A quick search only found bits and pieces of what i was after, so my questions are.

What do you guys use to clean the car? aka wash, wax, polish, clay bar etc
What order should you do each stage in?
(Do you need the special clay bar spray or does water work just as well)
What is involved with doing a cut+polish? is this possible to do yourself with decent results or best left to people who do it for a living

Any links to cleaning kits/guides etc would be helpfull.

Cheers.

[Mont5.0]

http://www.fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=116

[Jimmyd]

Originally Posted by bobuleh

A quick search only found bits and pieces of what i was after, so my questions are.

What do you guys use to clean the car? aka wash, wax, polish, clay bar etc
What order should you do each stage in?
(Do you need the special clay bar spray or does water work just as well)
What is involved with doing a cut+polish? is this possible to do yourself with decent results or best left to people who do it for a living

Any links to cleaning kits/guides etc would be helpfull.

Cheers.

1. Wash
2. Clay bar - use minute detailer as lubricant,
3. Polish - Pinnacle Liquid Souveran Wax is awsome if you are in a hostile environment (have to park next door to a cement factory every day
3. Wax - great final defense layer
4. Cut & Polish - rarely needed on a clear coat car

Go for a browse at forum sponsor http://waxit.com.au/ - all the answers you could ever want....

Cheers

James

[robbyj]

Thanks guys,
Just had a read through of the guides on the waxit website. Very helpful.

[POELWYK]

$20 at the car wash

Soap it
Wash it off
Fome brush it (check it and clean it before use)
wash it off
then clear coat
then get the trust shamy out
and dry the car

[Mr Hardware]

twenty friggin bucks!

[robbyj]

Originally Posted by POELWYK

$20 at the car wash

Soap it
Wash it off
Fome brush it (check it and clean it before use)
wash it off
then clear coat
then get the trust shamy out
and dry the car

haha we all get lazy sometimes.. but $20 worth!
i usually make do with $4.

Ill call into repco or equivalent, i wanna give the car a good proper wash,clay bar, polish and wax.

oh and i thought u were meant to rinse the clear coat off???

[adumb]

If you want stuff easy to get, I find the Mothers brand pretty good and easy to use. You will be able to do your whole car by yourself eaisly.

Wash
Clay
Pre-Wax Cleaner
Sealer/Glaze
FX Syn Wax (you can use the carnauba wax, but the syn wax brings out the metalic sparkle in the paint)

And then use a trim detailer on the on the black bits like on the mirrors and such.

Buy yourself 3 aplicator pads, the yellow meguiars ones are good, but the Gold class ones which are a white rectangle and a bit easier to hold if you have big hands.

Should be able to get all that for around $100

[robbyj]

Ah k cool thanks man.

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by bobuleh

A quick search only found bits and pieces of what i was after, so my questions are.

What do you guys use to clean the car? aka wash, wax, polish, clay bar etc
What order should you do each stage in?
(Do you need the special clay bar spray or does water work just as well)
What is involved with doing a cut+polish? is this possible to do yourself with decent results or best left to people who do it for a living

Any links to cleaning kits/guides etc would be helpfull.

Cheers.

I'm a professional detailer mate, happy to go through some things here...

In a nutshell....

STEP 1 - Wash
Self explanatory enough - removing all 'above surface' contaminants from the paint - dirt, dust etc...

STEP 2 - Surface Preparation
Preparing the surface for polishing - removing contaminants that have 'bonded' to the surface - rail dust, tree sap, diesel spray.......these things get left on the paint, and then are literally 'baked' in by the sun!

Using a claybar to remove these will give the paint it's 'glassy' feel back - nothing better!

STEP 3 - Polishing
The process of removing 'defects' from the paint - swirl marks, scratches. To achieve this, you actually have to remove the portion of the clearcoat which contains the 'defect'. Some areas may be worse off than others, so they may require either mulitple applications, or a more aggressive product to get the job done.

The 'least aggressive' method is heavily advocated here - you don't want to remove any more paint (clearcoat) than you have to, because once it's gone, it's gone!!!

STEP 4 - Protect
Use of a carnauba 'wax' or a synthetic 'sealant' to protect your car's finish and give it protection from the elements.

STEP 5 - Maintain
Maintain your nice paint finish with regular washing, plus the use of 'detail sprays' to boost the protection offered by the already applied wax or sealant.

**********
If any of you have any specific questions about any of the steps, shoot!

I am happy to recommend products but at the end of the day, a lot of it is subjective - as a VERY highly respected detailer who shall remain unnamed says: "Find something you like, and use it often"

[robbyj]

Thanks dave, i was hoping you'd comment on this, remembering you were going into detailing etc =)

Any brands to steer clear of, like the Armour All interior vinyl cleaner.
Any recommendations for some off the shelf products that are not mega expensive but still a good product?

[rst2000]

Originally Posted by dave93761

I'm a professional detailer mate, happy to go through some things here...

In a nutshell....

STEP 1 - Wash
Self explanatory enough - removing all 'above surface' contaminants from the paint - dirt, dust etc...

STEP 2 - Surface Preparation
Preparing the surface for polishing - removing contaminants that have 'bonded' to the surface - rail dust, tree sap, diesel spray.......these things get left on the paint, and then are literally 'baked' in by the sun!

Using a claybar to remove these will give the paint it's 'glassy' feel back - nothing better!

STEP 3 - Polishing
The process of removing 'defects' from the paint - swirl marks, scratches. To achieve this, you actually have to remove the portion of the clearcoat which contains the 'defect'. Some areas may be worse off than others, so they may require either mulitple applications, or a more aggressive product to get the job done.

The 'least aggressive' method is heavily advocated here - you don't want to remove any more paint (clearcoat) than you have to, because once it's gone, it's gone!!!

STEP 4 - Protect
Use of a carnauba 'wax' or a synthetic 'sealant' to protect your car's finish and give it protection from the elements.

STEP 5 - Maintain
Maintain your nice paint finish with regular washing, plus the use of 'detail sprays' to boost the protection offered by the already applied wax or sealant.

**********
If any of you have any specific questions about any of the steps, shoot!

I am happy to recommend products but at the end of the day, a lot of it is subjective - as a VERY highly respected detailer who shall remain unnamed says: "Find something you like, and use it often"

where r u located..

[blueoval]

This is the technique I use personally

What do you guys use to clean the car? aka wash, wax, polish, clay bar etc
To wash, I use 1 bucket of clean water, a chamois and some Style Magic waterless wash spray which is Ph Nuetral and contains no chemicals (completely natural ingredients)

I then use a Bilt Hamber Clay bar (medium grade depending on condition of paint at the time) Using clay with Style Magic spray as lubricant.

I have a Meguiars G220 DA Orbital buffer. I may do 1 or 2 passes with GLARE Knockout which deep cleans the paint and has started to remove some swirls (using orange pad). 1 or 2 passes with GLARE Micro to remove harder to get swirls and help fill in some swirls (orange pad) , then 1 pass with GLARE Pro Polish with the Orbital (white pad), and one pass by hand using a Lake Country CCA hand pad (black pad)

This process can take a while, and I usually spend an hour per panel when I do a full detail.

All the products I use are non-abrasive techniques. But require time to achieve with a DA Orbital.

What order should you do each stage in?
As above, you always make sure surface is clean from any loose grit, bird poo and road grime before attempting any clay work. You will find once you clay, the surface of the paint is super smooth to touch.

(Do you need the special clay bar spray or does water work just as well)
Again a good quality clay bar can get rid of deep contaminants that have lodged onto the paint over time. Bilt Hamber and 3M are both good clay bars to use. Im sure there are many more. Use a lubricant that is a bit better than water when claying. (never use dish washing detergent!!!!)

What is involved with doing a cut+polish? is this possible to do yourself with decent results or best left to people who do it for a living
If you have the time to spend on the car, you can accomplish pretty good results with a Orbital DA polisher, however, professional use rotary buffers which can cat deeper than any DA can and will produce better quality finishes in shorter amounts of time. BUT, rotary buffer's require some skill to use to avoid burning paint and damaging the clear coat due to the amount of heat these things can generate when spinning. DA Orbital buffers will never generate the same amount of heat a rotary could and its safe to use for any skill level. However, DA's will only achieve a certain level of quality. I use a DA and can get 'good' results, but never to the point a rotary buffer will achieve.

If you have the money to spend, I reckon getting a pro to get the job done initially with a rotary properly to remove deep swirls and bring clear coat to high gloss and reflection. After that with a DA you can maintain that look for years to come with some sealants as it has all been corrected.

Any links to cleaning kits/guides etc would be helpfull.

Matt Gibb (aka SVR73) is a pro detailer and has you tube clips on what he does for a living.
http://www.youtube.com/user/svr73

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by dave93761

I'm a professional detailer mate, happy to go through some things here...

In a nutshell....

STEP 1 - Wash
Self explanatory enough - removing all 'above surface' contaminants from the paint - dirt, dust etc...

STEP 2 - Surface Preparation
Preparing the surface for polishing - removing contaminants that have 'bonded' to the surface - rail dust, tree sap, diesel spray.......these things get left on the paint, and then are literally 'baked' in by the sun!

Using a claybar to remove these will give the paint it's 'glassy' feel back - nothing better!

STEP 3 - Polishing
The process of removing 'defects' from the paint - swirl marks, scratches. To achieve this, you actually have to remove the portion of the clearcoat which contains the 'defect'. Some areas may be worse off than others, so they may require either mulitple applications, or a more aggressive product to get the job done.

The 'least aggressive' method is heavily advocated here - you don't want to remove any more paint (clearcoat) than you have to, because once it's gone, it's gone!!!

STEP 4 - Protect
Use of a carnauba 'wax' or a synthetic 'sealant' to protect your car's finish and give it protection from the elements.

STEP 5 - Maintain
Maintain your nice paint finish with regular washing, plus the use of 'detail sprays' to boost the protection offered by the already applied wax or sealant.

**********
If any of you have any specific questions about any of the steps, shoot!

I am happy to recommend products but at the end of the day, a lot of it is subjective - as a VERY highly respected detailer who shall remain unnamed says: "Find something you like, and use it often"

Ok, you lost me at "in a nutshell" lol. This is why I don't detail my car. Too much to do. Got a headache just reading it

At the car wash it's usually $12-$14. If I'm in a hurry, about $6.

[Dave_Obsession]

^^^ LOL all good!

After having read some of the other replies in this thread, there is a fair bit of mis-information floating around. I'll post a more in-depth response tomorrow and I'll refer to some of the products that I use as well.....

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by dave93761

^^^ LOL all good!

After having read some of the other replies in this thread, there is a fair bit of mis-information floating around. I'll post a more in-depth response tomorrow and I'll refer to some of the products that I use as well.....

It gets a bit confusing. So many different opinions and too many different products. A product that worked for one, ruined another's and so on.. Guess I've been put off it bcoz I'm worried about making a mistake and ruining the car or having the wrong product. But I know that if I was shown how to do it, with the right product, it wouldn't be as bad as I'm imagining lol. And to tell you the truth, my car could use a good detailing and I'm not afraid of putting the effort in lol, but if i made a mistake, arghh..

[robbyj]

While this thread is revived.
@dave93761

I got some Meguiar's 'Quik Clay Kit' that contains the spray and clay bar.

And from raiding the cupboards at home i have found:

KITTEN 'Liquid polishing wax'
POLYGLAZE 'Glide on glaze' (liquid)
'Super turtle wax'

The wax seems ok but are either of the other 2 fine to use as a polish?
And what sort of cloth/rag should i use for each polishing and waxing.

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by bobuleh

While this thread is revived.
@dave93761

I got some Meguiar's 'Quik Clay Kit' that contains the spray and clay bar.

And from raiding the cupboards at home i have found:

KITTEN 'Liquid polishing wax'
POLYGLAZE 'Glide on glaze' (liquid)
'Super turtle wax'

The wax seems ok but are either of the other 2 fine to use as a polish?
And what sort of cloth/rag should i use for each polishing and waxing.

The Meguiar's Clay Kit is perfectly fine - the Quik Detailer is perfect as a clay lube, as there are better QD sprays out there - the clay bar gets the job done just fine.

One main problem that I encounter frequently, is that detailing 'terminology' is a bit confused between what detailers say and what the consuming public think. This isn't helped by some companies, who also realise this, and will give a product a name that just confuses things - such as Rob's Kitten 'Polishing Wax'

A 'polish' is a compound that contains some level of abrasives in it - it's purpose is to actually remove tiny amounts of paint, to assist in the removal of 'defects' - swirl marks & light scratches, holograms etc...

There is also a 'pure polish', which contains no abrasives and is usually full of oils which help to 'rehydrate' the finish and give maximum gloss, and are purely for appearance. Generally speaking, pure polishes work best on cars with single-stage finishes (most older cars), and cars with older clearcoats. On newer cars, there won't be as much of a difference, indeed on lighter coloured cars, you probably won't see any change at all.

However a lot of people out there refer to a 'polish' as a wax-type product, when they are two different things.

A 'wax' or 'sealant' is a product designed to act as a 'sacrificial' layer against the elements that can make your car finish dirty, whilst also giving good gloss and depth of shine. But its primary function is to protect the paintwork.

***

Rob, of the products you have, the Kitten Polishing Wax and the Super Turtle Wax are the same type of product - this would be the final product you use to add a layer of protection to the paintwork.

The Polyglaze Glide-On-Glaze is more like a 'pure polish' - you would apply & remove it as the last step BEFORE applying your wax - it won't remove any defects, however it may actually fill in some light swirls and scratches you may have - but you would need to apply your wax after this to prolong this effect, otherwise the glaze will wash away next time the car gets washed.

So to answer your question, none of those products are suitable as a 'polish', for the purposes of defect removal.

As far as what type of cloths to use - only one word for you - MICROFIBRE.
Don't use rags, don't use old t-shirts, don't use cheese cloth, only good quality microfibre towels.

I have a bunch of Meguiar's Supreme Shine Microfibre towels which I imported from the US (much cheaper over there!) - they are fantastic.

If you're looking for a reasonable towel that won't break the bank - the orange bulk pack that is sold at Supercheap Auto - when it's on special it's about $40 for 25 towels - quality is reasonable and they're a large size which makes things easier.

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by FRDGAL

It gets a bit confusing. So many different opinions and too many different products. A product that worked for one, ruined another's and so on.. Guess I've been put off it bcoz I'm worried about making a mistake and ruining the car or having the wrong product. But I know that if I was shown how to do it, with the right product, it wouldn't be as bad as I'm imagining lol. And to tell you the truth, my car could use a good detailing and I'm not afraid of putting the effort in lol, but if i made a mistake, arghh..

Yeah it can be very confusing, that's why I like to explain to any customers the difference between things, so they are able to correctly maintain their own paintwork after I've tidied it up for them :-)

Using the right products is important, because at the end of the day, automotive paint is quite delicate and it can be ruined quite easily. I've seen plenty of hack jobs from 'carwash cafés' that offer 'detailing', which make it harder for true 'detailers'. Now we have people that think a whole car can be properly 'detailed' in 1-2 hours and it will only cost $100!! If only!

Once I've organised a few more things with my business, I'll be holding some detailing clinics where all this stuff will be explained in depth, and you'll be able to try out some products and see the difference for yourselves! I'll be doing a special aufalcon.com clinic for sure! I'll let everybody know closer to the date, but I'd be looking at early 2011 at the moment!

[robbyj]

Originally Posted by dave93761

Rob, of the products you have, the Kitten Polishing Wax and the Super Turtle Wax are the same type of product - this would be the final product you use to add a layer of protection to the paintwork.

The Polyglaze Glide-On-Glaze is more like a 'pure polish' - you would apply & remove it as the last step BEFORE applying your wax - it won't remove any defects, however it may actually fill in some light swirls and scratches you may have - but you would need to apply your wax after this to prolong this effect, otherwise the glaze will wash away next time the car gets washed.

So to answer your question, none of those products are suitable as a 'polish', for the purposes of defect removal.

As far as what type of cloths to use - only one word for you - MICROFIBRE.
Don't use rags, don't use old t-shirts, don't use cheese cloth, only good quality microfibre towels.

I have a bunch of Meguiar's Supreme Shine Microfibre towels which I imported from the US (much cheaper over there!) - they are fantastic.

If you're looking for a reasonable towel that won't break the bank - the orange bulk pack that is sold at Supercheap Auto - when it's on special it's about $40 for 25 towels - quality is reasonable and they're a large size which makes things easier.

Ok thanks heaps mate.
Ill be on the look out for some microfiber towels.

[KR1STO]

Dave... where are you located mate..?
My lane is in big need of a full detail... clay, polish, etc...
Anyway you could pm me your location and a ballpark figure...?

Sorry to hi-jack thread...!

[robbyj]

Originally Posted by KR1STO

Sorry to hi-jack thread...!

Dont be, it just shows dave's expertise =)

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by KR1STO

Dave... where are you located mate..?
My lane is in big need of a full detail... clay, polish, etc...
Anyway you could pm me your location and a ballpark figure...?

Sorry to hi-jack thread...!

PM sent.
Nah you haven't hi-jacked anything, at the end of the day, if I can help some of you guys to understand a little more about the whole detailing process, then everyone's a winner!

[SVR73]

Detailing or Re-finishing as I prefer to call it is a process and there are many different processes that one can use

Using abrasives or not use abrasives
The technology today is very good and one can do alot of things with paint without removing any of it

It definately can be confusing for many people. There are many treatments that can be performed on paintwork
Not just abrasive polishing ie paint milling/correction.

Many on the forums have been led to believe that all that can be done is paint correction and then glaze, seal or wax. Thats just scratching the surface hehe

[Dave_Obsession]

Originally Posted by SVR73

Detailing or Re-finishing as I prefer to call it is a process and there are many different processes that one can use

Using abrasives or not use abrasives
The technology today is very good and one can do alot of things with paint without removing any of it

It definately can be confusing for many people. There are many treatments that can be performed on paintwork
Not just abrasive polishing ie paint milling/correction.

Yes there are other methodologies out there...thats not to say that paint correction isn't any good however.

I know you're a huge advocate of the Glare system, and it does appear to be very impressive. All I will say, is that if it was THAT good, wouldn't other more well-established companies be offering a similar service?? I can only offer advice on what I know how to do and what has been taught to me, but as always, expanding one's skill set isn't a bad thing.....

I do consider the Glare system as a form of 'paint correction' - because that's what it is doing essentially.....

Originally Posted by SVR73

Many on the forums have been led to believe that all that can be done is paint correction and then glaze, seal or wax. Thats just scratching the surface hehe

That is gold lol

[blueoval]

GLARE now is old hat to Matt (SVR73) now. Matt is currently doing a lot of R&D himself and creating his own non abrasive correction system that will be released soon.

GLARE is good, but definitely not the best. I have been lucky enough to see the products Matt has been creating and using on his customers cars and it continues to blow me away how he can get such clarity and depth from a non abrasive system, and more importantly, that LASTS.

[SVR73]

[QUOTE=dave93761]Yes there are other methodologies out there...thats not to say that paint correction isn't any good however.

I know you're a huge advocate of the Glare system, and it does appear to be very impressive. All I will say, is that if it was THAT good, wouldn't other more well-established companies be offering a similar service?? I can only offer advice on what I know how to do and what has been taught to me, but as always, expanding one's skill set isn't a bad thing.....

I do consider the Glare system as a form of 'paint correction' - because that's what it is doing essentially.....


Glad you like it Dave. I hope your detailing business venture takes off and that you lead the state your in with the best services there available

paint correction is absolutely brilliant and I love doing it. But its not the be all and end all.
Its the paint decontamination stages prior to claying and then what I use prior to correction and then after correction that is the pinnacle of this industry.

Glare is becoming old hat for sure. I only use Zero, Micro, Pro, Infinity, Ultra wash and thats it. Dont like anything else of theirs.
Knockout is history now as well.

I'm definately moving away from it slowly. Scratch resistant products are the key. we need protectants to do more than just create surface tension and have hydrophobic effect.

might as well make my own unique products instead of buying other peoples crap. No one but a detailer really knows more about products. Not even the product manufacturers know as much.

The thing about Glare is that there are two different versions
The very dry american crap. Then there is the Australian which is far superior
Have been to the USA and used their version and its junk

Maybe the reason that others use it is that people see the claims that they make and simply judge it as being snake oil.
The sales manager at the company is glares own worst enemy.
Most of their claims are true but some are downright silly.

There are also three ways of using it. The stupid american way is how most do it and why they get poor results.

anyhow lets get back on track here.

Regardless of what the previous member said - Quality is a combination of the four T's and one other thing. time, talent, techniques, tools and many products
You cant wash, clay and put one polish and then a wax on your car and get it like us Pro's do.

There are steps that need to be undertaken and the prep is everything
90% of pro's in Australia probably dont do enough prep because they either dont get paid enough so cant spend the time, their price is too low, couldnt be bothered doing it or dont know theres more to paint detoxing than claying.

Spend the time and you'll get the lasting great shine.

I have spent a decade testing 100 brands of products in every way shape or form that they can be tested and been in this industry for 17 years.
Still plenty to learn but I do know what I am talking about most of the time.
Can back up the talk with the walk.

[Dave_Obsession]

Your input is always valuable and appreciated!! I know I've got a LONG way to go to be in the same league as people like yourself. Experience is king, and that only comes with time. 17 years is not to be sneezed at!

You're totally right about the 'not enough prep' with a lot of jobs that people do - but you nailed it as to the reasons why - time and money quite often comes first.

I'm sure if all detailers didn't have to worry about cost and time when preparing cars to be corrected/refinished/detoxified/whatever, a lot more cars would come out a lot nicer.

I've seen too many hack jobs around, that's partly what got me into it - the idea of providing a QUALITY service that can be relied upon to give a great result. I'm sure you're also happy there are plenty of hacks out there - it means more business for you once they realise you're the real deal.

With regards to 'paint detoxification' - are you talking about something similar to the Finish Kare 3 step system? What else is there?

[SVR73]

Originally Posted by dave93761

Your input is always valuable and appreciated!! I know I've got a LONG way to go to be in the same league as people like yourself. Experience is king, and that only comes with time. 17 years is not to be sneezed at!

You're totally right about the 'not enough prep' with a lot of jobs that people do - but you nailed it as to the reasons why - time and money quite often comes first.

I'm sure if all detailers didn't have to worry about cost and time when preparing cars to be corrected/refinished/detoxified/whatever, a lot more cars would come out a lot nicer.

I've seen too many hack jobs around, that's partly what got me into it - the idea of providing a QUALITY service that can be relied upon to give a great result. I'm sure you're also happy there are plenty of hacks out there - it means more business for you once they realise you're the real deal.

With regards to 'paint detoxification' - are you talking about something similar to the Finish Kare 3 step system? What else is there?

Spot on again Dave
I really do wish you the very best with your endeavour.
My best advice - make sure you get into it with plenty of capital and offer services that the others cannot.
Never stand still or settle with where you are. Always keep looking for new ways to do things, to save you time but be better at the same time
Spend some time each month for R&D to sharpen your skills and perfect your buffing system. Which pads work best with what product etc

I do a tonne of it.




Yes time and money are extremely important. Fortunately I have clientel that don't care how long it takes or what needs to be done, just do it properly and perfectly. So I have as much as I want as in this game, rushing your work is a no no and can be expensive.

I get to work with custom restoration shops, a car wash cafe/detail centre (part time) which details for the average Joe, celebrities and the rich and famous of Adelaide (the few that there are hehe) as well as the upper echelon of adelaide's business people. Detailer to the starts is what my part time employer always calls me.

So I am blessed.
However many others are not and whether working for themselves or an employer, many who may look to be hacks are not really but never get the time and type of work to prove that they are better than that.

Anyway, we are getting off track again.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by dave93761

Once I've organised a few more things with my business, I'll be holding some detailing clinics where all this stuff will be explained in depth, and you'll be able to try out some products and see the difference for yourselves! I'll be doing a special aufalcon.com clinic for sure! I'll let everybody know closer to the date, but I'd be looking at early 2011 at the moment!

Sounds great! And definately something I need so I can be shown how it's done and learn the right way. Where abouts in Melb are you Dave?